The time to nerf S tier civs

Suddenly there are two posts for balancing and deleting bonuses, some which are unneccesary.
No one talks about the S tier civs (Tatars, Chinese, Franks, Mayans) and those need to be nerfed.

Lets start


  • Chu Ko Nu cost increased to 50 wood, 40 gold
  • Chu Ko Nu training time up to 20 seconds for both.
  • Attack for standard reduced to 7
  • Rocketry cost increased to 1200 wood, 900 gold.
  • Team bonus reduced to 30 food.

Reasons are simple: an archer with 8 base attack in castle being that cheap and fast trained is just broken, put that in conjuction with the supreme chinese eco and the Chu Ko Nu is just broken (lol have you seen 30-40 of them shredding everything?? not fair).


  • Forager workrate bonus reduced to 20%
    Reason is: Franks are too dominant because of this strong start, and with this nerf it would slower a bit their starting advantage, unlike Chinese, theyr tech tree is more limited so this is enough.


  • Longer lasting resources reduced to 10%, maybe even just 5%
  • Obsidian Arrows exterminated from the game, and replaced with: Poison Arrows (Foot Archers +2 attack vs villagers) cost 400 wood, 600 gold.
    Reasoning is: They are just OP with Obsidian Arrows agaisnt things that aren’t supposed to master (vs buildings, Saracens is the same case but is harder to redesign and Saracens aren’t broken).


  • Sheeps contain 40% more food instead of 50%.
  • Extra Sheeps limited to only one in feudal.
  • Keshik food cost increased to 60.
    Reasons are: Tatars are so smooth in their transitions and get so many advantages on open maps, hence why are the hated
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Chu Ko Nus don’t need any nerf.


Lol how are they fine.
They are just completely busted

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They are not boosted or broken. They are super slow and have bad fire rate.


The whole Chinese civ is kinda asking to get flattened by mass onager spam. In certain situations Celts beat Chinese harder than Goths could ever beat Mayan.


8 attack for 40 w, 35 g is broken, that’s not counting how fast are they trained and let’s not say that chinese aren’t in need to be nerfed.

War Wagons have 9 attack as base, but they are way more expensive and harder to get because Korean eco is weaker, hell even Mongols pay more for the Mangudai which can be extremely powerful

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They barely win against Arbalests. Chu Ko Nus have trash fire rate: 3.0 compared to Arbalest’s 2.0.


They are better vs even their direct counters, and also cheaper.
Can you say the same for Rattans, Longbows, Plumes or Genoese?

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They have one less range too, so the pierce damage is irrelevant against Skirmishers. Onagers eat them any day. Only better vs Siege Rams and Eagles.

Massed Rattans eat everything in this game other than Siege Onagers, Eagles, Huskarls, Paladins and Tarkans

Longbows eat Siege Onagers

Plumes have high mobility and eat Eagles

They eat Paladins or other heavy cavalry.


thats actually something i never knew.


Obsidian arrow yes, It’ broken.


You joking? There has been one thread about nerfing Franks right here in the last month, and there are 2 on Reddit, one of which’ argumentation and proposals are super cringe (the other one is written by someone who is actually sensible) And remember all the outcry about Persian not so long ago?

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It’s in part because they need to wait for all their secondary arrows to come out, and since secondary arrows are weaker and super innacurate they don’t always make up for the lower fire rate.

Yes I know that, but mostly for the Franks, and Persians were nerfed so

Rattan Archer is more expensive and Vietnamese eco is weaker.

Siege Ram civs laugh at Longbows, Chu Ko Nus melt rams

Skirmishers and Heavy Cavalry eat Plumes.

With a higher cost of course.

Coming back on topic, besides the obvious problems like obsidian arrows, some of those proposals sound like overnerfs. For instance if you remove obsidian arrows and replace it with something useless à la Nomads, I don’t think you need to destroy their bonus and make it 5% only.

Chinese look overnerfed too.


Chu Ko Nu s are always weird units. They are one of the my favourite units. I played a lot of CBA games (well, unit is free and creation time different than normal) but I can tell the unit itself doesn’t that OP. You can kill them.

Little, I don’t need to write anything, maybe this make Frank players sad and they will start playing other civs.

Why this is exists? It was %20. It nerfed to %15 but still it’s too strong. More Gold, More Stone, more efficient Wood.

I think price a little bit high. Castle Age Skirms and Crossbows can take vils easily. Removing Obsidian Arrow makes a lot of sense.

I have played some games with them. Maybe you can nerf sheep bonus but I think Keshiks are making nonsense or I am disappointed with them. I don’t know, every normal or CBA game they are a little bit like a Trash but not like Magyar Huzsar.

Believe me that Chinese make Chu Ko Nus 100% of the time in a very massive way.

Nerf meta.

Vietnamese economy might be weaker, but it’s not a weak economy. Rattan Archers are the most pop effective foot archer in the game.

Siege Onagers civs laugh at Chu Ko Nus , Longbows melt rams

Heavy Cavalry don’t eat Plumes due to mobility and high hp

Chinese don’t nerfs at all. I agree about Mayans to remove their stupid obsidian arrows completely from the game. Tatars you must chose 1 of 2, reduce their 50% to 40% (and remove their sheeps in castle) OR only +1 sheep in feudal, not both of your suggestions togother because this is worse than their original bonus. Agree to Franks.

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