Please stay on the topic of the harvest rate for berry bushes. I have removed several off-topic posts. If you would like to discuss cavalry archer balance, please start a new topic.
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I’m not sure why you don’t want to post the numbers, if you’ve already done it, seeing as how they’re pretty central to this thread, but I did it myself. Food collected by 1 villager after 10 minutes in dark age:
Berries 186
Sheep 196
Farm 213
Deer 225
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considering two of those sources decay, and one of them requires an investment, those numbers are fine by me.
Berry bushes are a free food source given to every civ in every game.
Unilaterally buffing them is a buff to every civ in the early game, which clearly isn’t justified for a variety of reasons.
It doesn’t need to be a fast food source. It’s a free food source and it’s an important food source in many builds I use, regardless of it’s current speed. It needs no attention.
Bush foraging rate is just fine for me. Increasing it will just speed up the game and throw civ balances off, imo; including faster age-up times due to faster berry collection rates, etc.
If the gameplay is too slow for you and you want a faster game, in general, you can play on a faster speed. But if the current “Fast” speed option isn’t fast enough and you want even faster speed options, like me, please like or contribute to my thread here:
My suggestion is mainly for single-player and unranked matches. But there is brief discussion on how it might be cool to have faster speeds available in ranked games someday, too.
That said, I like the current berry-collection rate, as is, relative to other collection rates.
Nice! So berries have 18/min collect rate, sheep 19.5/min, farms 21/min, deers 22.5/min.
Then i suggest for berries and sheeps to become 20/min.
And that is out of the picture… When you understand. Berries already are important enough that it decides final games when pushed. Dont do as if they are like rotten berries full of sand, they are a pivotal and crucial part of your economy. If you buff berries you totally change the dark age variety. If sheep and berries give you same food effectively you will punish barracks before mill plays. You will change entire build orders because you rather want a mill than a lumber camp instantly… I dont know why you are so bothered and what hit you in the ■■■ but berries are fine and just being annoyed by numbers being too low is not really what a professional advice should look like. There are reasons why berries are slower and we repeated it over and over again.
They dont rot, they cant be stolen, they dont need much micro, they dont need much scouting for 800 food, they dont cost any investment except 100 wood (but you need the extra building anyhow). Berries are one of the best food sources because they last so long that you have a nice food trickle until early mid feudal. No worries about a sheep going empty and having 4 idle vills that suddenly need farms while you are drushing.
And why are you so angry dude?! Take it easy, give him a berry people as he wish with a grain of salt
I am far from angry. I just dont get why all counter arguments are ignored just to get higher numbers for a random thing without any justification except numbers being too low.
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I told you with numbers this 18/min on bushes is really stupid, i think sheeps/bushes should be 20/min, any attack on bushes make this free 1000 food is useless with their slow work, you are saying the bushes are the safest food place how so?! With only drush or one tower near the bushes early you will get 1000 food as a waste and 4 idle vills you often will send them to wood or anything else, if they are faster you will have a good early eco on food to deal with anything later even if you got drushed.
I wonder why everyone of you say no?! I am not talking to make it a bonus for specific civ or changing it that much, i suggest just +2 food/min this is not a big deal!!!
Many people give their reason. Yet you are still wondering why they oppose. Do you read their post?
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The problem with the arguments being presented is that some people present their point once, then argue with people who specifically argue something contradictory, which is fine.
The rest of the people present their point continuously with little variation for uncertain reasons (maybe they just want the last word in? idk) anytime someone posts something that isn’t unconditional agreement with their position. Why not just specifically address the points that address your post, then otherwise leave it be?
This is a much more reasoned approach than to constantly state that it should be changed because you don’t like it. Okay. You don’t like it. After the 5th time you say exactly that, you won’t have changed anyone’s opinion on the subject and you haven’t added to the discussion. You don’t like it being slower than Sheep, Farms, Deer, Boar, or Shore. Alright. We’ve heard it. We don’t think it’s a problem. Leave it at that.
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Hahahaha you convinced me man, anyway i think i was mistaken by opening this topic, it is not that important thing , but somehow the bushes collect rate will still bad in my opinion, well i think it is enough for this topic just close the case.
Don’t collect berries if they are useless. Problem solved.
Berry bushes intentionally gather slowly. They have serious advantages over other sources of food in the early game:
- They’re fairly safe, being close to the TC.
- They don’t decay which means you can put as many villagers as you want gathering them without sacrificing total yield.
- They cannot be lamed.
- They don’t require luring/pushing.
- They don’t require scouting.
- They don’t require resources and time to build as in farms.
Making foraging faster would nullify the need for pushing deer in some cases or seeding early farms. It totally breaks the metagame.
If you want to enjoy berry bush gathering you can play as Franks which gather them faster while also getting free farm upgrades. This combination together allows you to the defer seeding farms well into the feudal age.
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Great explanation.
I would add a seventh point:
7. They are not on shorelines. (This overlaps a bit with #1 but in some maps it is better to dock a shorefish instead of milling berries)
They kinda do tho
But they are always easily found
Ha! I just envisioned being able to lure berry bushes to your Town Center 
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me, walling off my opponent’s berries with palisades on BF
Oh yes, of course, excellent point
More seriously, another point I want to add to all the qualities of the berries is that they can be very flexible, just like straggler trees. If you have any idles at some point (waiting for the wood to build farms or deer being pushed), putting them on berries is a safe way to keep them busy for a few seconds.
Nitpicking level here is pretty high