True, and they are the better Archer for offensive purposes, but not the best overall Archer like they used to be in Conquerors, anymore.
Ethiopian Arbs can actually beat Plumes nowadays, by virtue of faster attacks and ease of massing.
Plumes are also classified as anti-Infantry Archers, but Slingers and basic FU HCs do it better than them by a wide margin too.
This does not make Plumes bad, but unless they had a huge buff to their bonus vs Infantry, I do not think they would stand up to the easy to mass and afford Huskarls.
Again you are missing the point. I am talking about versatility, you are talking about a very specific situation : archers vs archers. Plumes will be better than Ethiopian archers in most situations in the game. The fact that they are tankier and move faster is the main reason for this.
As I said, I donât know whether Mayans need another nerf or not. My point was only that, IF they do need one in 33 match-ups, you canât avoid it just because of the Mayans vs Goths match-up. As you say, something other needs to be done there. El Dorado is not the specific answer for the Mayans vs Goths match-up because it also impacts greatly all the other match-ups.
I donât think archers are never good in post-imp.
Full upgraded arbalests will always have their place in late game. They have great DPS against a lot of units, including infantry, camels, cavalry with low low to mid pierce armor, villagers, etc.
Just because they canât damage siege rams doesnât make them useless.
Having a melee option is important yes. But how does nerfing El Dorado removes the melee option of Mayans? I mean, even without El Dorado, elite eagle warriors are great in a lot of situations. They make mince meat of siege rams and are still very efficient raiders. Hving Eldorado give them 30 hp instead of 40 hp would still make them the best eagles in the game. I donât see how thatâs removing their melee option?
Also, something you forgot to mention is that one of Mayansâ best answer to Aztec Eagles in late game is actually Elite Plumed archers. They do fairly well against eagles. That being said, El dorado Eagles would still do faily well too.
Does that mean they need a nerf? I didnât say that. I just say that it wouldnât be as catastrophic as it seems to be argued here, if they did.
Why are you pushing the issue so hard? Mayans literally just got their only other trash/huskarl/other eagle counter nerfed, and the civ falls off hard in the late game.
So why the push to further nerf it?
You can say they have the best eagles, and this is true, but they also have the worst swordsman line.
I get where youâre coming from. I personally think that removing Supplies from Mayans was not the best move. I canât think of a match-up other than Goths where they would use swordmen anyways, unless Iâm mistaken? And that match up was already negative.
They should give supplies back to Mayans for sure.
As for the rest, I donât know whether El Dorado HP needs to be nerfed or not. Or if the cost should be upped or not. Many people seem to think they should. Iâm not against it and not for it either. I think Mayans would still be a top tier civ even if El Dorado went from +40 hp to +30 hp.
If both players are economically balanced in the game, Elite Plumes can actually trade favourably vs Eagles when massed enough, in a frontal fight with micro.
The advantage of Eagles is that they can avoid a frontal fight and raid the economy from multiple angles, but if the Mayan players defends well enough, heâll have better gold economy in the long term as he will be able to keep his plumes alive while the aztec player wastes his eagles. If he is not able to defend against Eagle raids, the Aztec will have the upper hand.
What do you mean by Incan eagles only taking 1 damage per shot? Bonus damage is pure dmg so they will take at least the 2 bonus damage so it should be 2 or 3 damage per shot
You seem to be very confident about everything youâre saying.
Well, hate to break it to you, but I just did the test. Post imperial Incan Elite Egale warriors take 2 damage per shot from Mayan Elite Plumed archers, not 1.
Which still isnât full damage though. Shouldnât thry be taking 3 in that case? Because notmal damage can never be less then 1? Either way, fact is that if you hage more plumes then he has eagles heâs already screwed up.
I did say âeither 2 or 3 damageâ.
You were confident about 1 damage.
But thatâs getting a bit off topic, Iâll stop for now and see what other people have to say.
Edit: what Iâm guessing is that the ânormalâ damage can never be less than 1, when there are no bonuses. But it could actually be zero when there are bonus damages, and only the bonus damages are applied. I donât know if thatâs how it works, but it would make sense.
