that explains everything. mongols need some quick nerf!
TheViper & Nili state El Dorado needs to be nerfed to +30HP next, say it is still ridiculous upgrade
I got my formula wrong, sorry.
In my Historical Realism Mod, I switched the Aztec and Mayan techs around. Garland Wars gives the Aztec infantry +20 HP (including Jaguar Warrior), but no attack increase. And El Dorado is returned to its 50 second research time, but gives +4 attack to Eagle Warriors, as opposed to +40 HP. I feel this is killing two birds with one stone because Jaguar Warriors are under-utilized due to their extreme weakness to any kind of ranged unit, while the Mayans get a one-two punch with hard-hitting Eagle Warriors+ Plumed Archers. They still beat the 80 HP EEWs of the Aztecs. I wish the devs would switch this in the game.
Why is it always you making random balance threads with heavy opinion about X. Also no need to attach Y pro to it. If pros think something about balance they can give their input directly to devs on their discord channel.
I wish the devs would switch this in the game.
Why would you wish for such a switch? Mayans are an archer civilization, so they need their EEW to be tanky to act as a meatshield for their archers. A very stupid idea to make them deal more damage instead when its their archers job to deal damage.
It’s funny that when I saw this topic name first, I quickly realized who created it.
This speaks volumes
They still have Siege Rams for damage sponges. I think it makes them even more hard-hitting. But even the pros admit they have too much HP with a very high HP archer unit and High HP EEWs. Plus the Aztecs need some help with their UU in my opinion.
They still have Siege Rams for damage sponges.
You must be joking? You actually think that rams are capable of doing the same job as EEW with extra hp?
But even the pros admit they have too much HP
Yeah but even the pros don’t want to CHANGE the bonus from HP to attack instead lol.
Plus the Aztecs need some help with their UU in my opinion.
So let’s kill mayans in favor of that yes? Even if aztec UU was bad, their civ is quite on the top and always has been.
Plus the Aztecs need some help with their UU in my opinion.
If you buffed the Aztec UU, the civ would go from very strong to overpowered.
Yeah I think you’re right…I’ll change it back on my mod.
I changed it back- however I did change the Jaguar Warrior to have a lot of HP and very low base attack (upgraded through Garland Wars) with the same +10(11) vs. infantry. Makes the Jag tankier but still mostly useful against infantry.
I must report that,
I have not found a single valid counter-argument to none other than TheViper’s as well as Nili’s suggestion that nerfing the incredible +40HP awarded to 8 Pierce Armor Mayan EEW is necessary, on this entire thread.
Hera was also for nerfing El Dorado in breakdown in stream.
To all of you here arguing “Winrates”, “Majority”, “This will be Unpopular”, “Unnecessary change” etc. etc., there is only one thing to say…
when it comes to balancing it doesn’t matter what the majority thinks. It matters what people with good knowledge about the game think.
That’s not because the majority doesn’t matter (obviously), but because the majority is just not able to judge how good or bad a change would be.
except you aren’t a lion, and no where close.
and before you say that the pros are.
show me where the pros asked to change Indians into an elephant civ.
show me where the pros asked to change the design of the game to revolve around UU being the core of armies
Show me where the pros asked to buff Infantry UU and Militia Line.
show me where the pros asked to reduce Elephant cost by 20%.
or that SL civs should lose Knights and SL should be redesigned?
![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matcauthon3/48/29474_2.png)
except you aren’t a lion.
except Viper, Hera and Nili are lions. And they have called for what I have also argued multiple times in my own Threads.
So it appears my Threads are in accordance with the Lions. Even if I may not be a Lion myself.
![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/parthnan/48/55505_2.png)
Simple suggestion that could make fall in place with civ balance changes. It is a pretty uniquely powerful upgrade. Its probably the best imp UT in the game by far. Imagine if Frank’s got an upgrade that added 66% hp to paladins for 265 hp. I’d argue this is one of the reasons for the Mayan domination of the Metagame from their release till now. Even after this small tweak, remember they would still get as much as +50% HP on their eagles, meaning they’re still the best eagles by far. A SoTL vi…
![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/parthnan/48/55505_2.png)
This is Fresh News TheViper himself has made a statement that, El Dorado needs a reduction in the extra HP from +40HP(+66%) to +30(+50%) (instead of only +20 seconds) Nili has also called for a either a price increase or a HP nerf. TheViper’s and Nili’s analysis comes with the most experience in the game, playing with and against El Dorado over all these years, but he clearly now feels El Dorado is (and I quote him) "STILL pretty ridonkulous". Watch for yourself, listen closely: This is …
And here’s another example: My original thread, plus PRO opinions threads.
Ive read many many posts on this major issue since many years, and decided to finally speak up. I cant beleive the devs havent fixed this massively unusable UU already. It has basically remained untweaked since african kingdoms (and look at Hera’s latest video on UU tiers). They buffed the Tarkans, Axemen, Berserks, War Wagons, Battle eles, Condos, Konniks, Turtles etc many times (regardless of if the civ was strong or not) AND gave them actual competitive viability but never even showed inter…
![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/parthnan/48/55505_2.png)
Elephant Archers : STILL absolutely useless F-tier crap, according to Hera’s video, Nili’s Video as well as Viper’s video on this new patch. Look at their reaction to the “buffs” to the pitiful EA. Viper and Hera are the two best in the world, what they say in full seriousness should definetly be taken as important. Nili is a pro streamer and a pro player, so he knows both sides of the equation. Word-to-Word: Hera says “TO BE HONEST ITS STILL TRASH” Viper says “I DONT THINK IT CHANGES ANYT…
![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/parthnan/48/55505_2.png)
except Viper, Hera and Nili are lions. And they have called for what I have argued multiple times.
okay show me where the pros have called for…
![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matcauthon3/48/29474_2.png)
show me where the pros asked to change Indians into an elephant civ.
show me where the pros asked to change the design of the game to revolve around UU being the core of armies
Show me where the pros asked to buff Infantry UU and Militia Line.
show me where the pros asked to reduce Elephant cost by 20%.
or that SL civs should lose Knights and SL should be redesigned?
also that last one - viper has since rescinded his opinion and feels EA are a good unit, so yeah, stop trying to use him to support you argument about EA
If you want to say that you argue for the pros. then only argue for what the pros call for. instead of trying to use “I speak for the pros on a few issues, and use their voice to argue for what i want else where”.
![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/parthnan/48/55505_2.png)
So it appears my Threads are in accordance with the Lions. Even if I may not be a Lion myself.
hmm.
the elephant archer one has been discredited on vipers front at least.
as for the rest of your threads.
where have the pros asked for the following?
turtle ship balance?
Turtle Ships are likely overpriced for what they do. They are still unseen and unused even after THREE SPECIAL TURTLE BUFFS after AoC Buff 0. No Castle required Buff 1. -10% Wood and Gold cost Buff 2. Panokseon = +15% speed Buff 3. -15% Wood cost Poll: Why do we hardly ever see TS in serious games? poll The situation with TS makes it clear that a Buff 4 is absolutely necessary to balance this unit. Which is a shame considering also the Korean themes and history. The necessary Buff 4…
SL replacing knights?
Simple thing to consider, as of now unlike Battle Elephants, SL are too similar to knights and being less cost effective, are never seen. SL civs always go plain old Knights when going cavalry. So a proposed solution to both, the underwhelming nature of SL as well as its non-use lies maybe in removing Knights altogether from Cumans, Tatars and Mongols, BUFFING the SL in exchange. I do think Mongols and Tatars specifically should lose knights in exchange for a buff to SL. This is because it so…
talked about halbs being too good?
A quick poll and discussion, as I want to see if people think Halbs are too strong as well as too spammable against mounted units. Or if they think +60, +30 etc against al mounted units(including CavArchers, Unused Elephant units etc) is 100% justified. poll It is a fact that many mounted units never see play in the game, and it could be good if we could remedy that. And also that Standard Infantry in comparison to Halberdiers don’t see any play. Personally, Spearman and Pikeman bonus values a…
cared about the state of militia/longswords?
https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/longswordsmen-balance-poll/84926
buffing of Arson?
Infantry are still the worst unit type in the game currently. And despite Arson and the building HP nerfs, buildings still stand up a bit too well against the slow Infantry units, with heavy cavalry actually doing a better job of reaching and damaging them. Arson should be +4 vs standard buildings, and at least +3, rather than just +2. You can have it 50% blockable by masonry if you’re concerned it is a big change for Post-Imp. Because it comes in the Castle Age, Doubling its effect is only g…
buffing “unused units”?
![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/parthnan/48/55505_2.png)
Simple question here on units like War Elephants, Shotel Warriors, Condottiero, Teutonic Knights, Turtle Ships, Steppe Lancers and Siege Towers which are almost never used in ranked 1v1 play. Considering that this game is supposed to be balanced around ranked play, and it is built to be played mainly that way, and that we also have these 7 units which are basically never seen, there is a responsibility to make these units viable for serious use in ranked play. TOPIC OF THE THREAD: So the ques…
buffing monk build time?
![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/parthnan/48/55505_2.png)
As in the title, there is a big issue with monks that has gone under the radar the whole time. Monks train too slowly and this has been one of the biggest reasons why many a times Knight Rushes have not been soundly countered by supposedly the perfect counter to Knights, and players just give up and go for the Trash. Of all units in Castle/Imperial age, only the Bombard Cannon takes more time than Monks, that too just 5 more seconds. The only map where they contribute millitarily is Arena. As…
and when have we seen pros complain about knights/xbows meta?
![](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/parthnan/48/55505_2.png)
An important issue in the current metagame. I have felt that in DE(and same tendency in HD), crossbowmen and knights are two specific units that are being spammed by close to every civilization in the game regardless of that civ’s supposed area of mastery, strengths and weaknesses. The only exceptions I can see are the Meso/Indians/Saracens for knights and Spanish/Bulgarians/Burmese for the crossbows. I believe that this leads to a very stale metagame and can easily become boring to watch even…
If you’re going to “Argue from Authority” i’m going to require you to source each and every claim and thread you make.
Matter of fact: the only thing CLOSE to xbows/knights meta that has ever been talked about by pros (and community in general) has been melee pathing.
I do have ideas of my own as well, just like you do, and which youve done a good job listing.
And my observations even for those always comes from the pro scene.
Not from anecdotal evidence, low level play or my own experiences