TheViper & Nili state El Dorado needs to be nerfed to +30HP next, say it is still ridiculous upgrade

that explains everything. mongols need some quick nerf!

I got my formula wrong, sorry.

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In my Historical Realism Mod, I switched the Aztec and Mayan techs around. Garland Wars gives the Aztec infantry +20 HP (including Jaguar Warrior), but no attack increase. And El Dorado is returned to its 50 second research time, but gives +4 attack to Eagle Warriors, as opposed to +40 HP. I feel this is killing two birds with one stone because Jaguar Warriors are under-utilized due to their extreme weakness to any kind of ranged unit, while the Mayans get a one-two punch with hard-hitting Eagle Warriors+ Plumed Archers. They still beat the 80 HP EEWs of the Aztecs. I wish the devs would switch this in the game.

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Why is it always you making random balance threads with heavy opinion about X. Also no need to attach Y pro to it. If pros think something about balance they can give their input directly to devs on their discord channel.


Why would you wish for such a switch? Mayans are an archer civilization, so they need their EEW to be tanky to act as a meatshield for their archers. A very stupid idea to make them deal more damage instead when its their archers job to deal damage.

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It’s funny that when I saw this topic name first, I quickly realized who created it.

This speaks volumes


They still have Siege Rams for damage sponges. I think it makes them even more hard-hitting. But even the pros admit they have too much HP with a very high HP archer unit and High HP EEWs. Plus the Aztecs need some help with their UU in my opinion.

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You must be joking? You actually think that rams are capable of doing the same job as EEW with extra hp?

Yeah but even the pros don’t want to CHANGE the bonus from HP to attack instead lol.

So let’s kill mayans in favor of that yes? Even if aztec UU was bad, their civ is quite on the top and always has been.

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If you buffed the Aztec UU, the civ would go from very strong to overpowered.

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Yeah I think you’re right…I’ll change it back on my mod.

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I changed it back- however I did change the Jaguar Warrior to have a lot of HP and very low base attack (upgraded through Garland Wars) with the same +10(11) vs. infantry. Makes the Jag tankier but still mostly useful against infantry.

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I must report that,
I have not found a single valid counter-argument to none other than TheViper’s as well as Nili’s suggestion that nerfing the incredible +40HP awarded to 8 Pierce Armor Mayan EEW is necessary, on this entire thread.
Hera was also for nerfing El Dorado in breakdown in stream.

To all of you here arguing “Winrates”, “Majority”, “This will be Unpopular”, “Unnecessary change” etc. etc., there is only one thing to say…

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except you aren’t a lion, and no where close.
and before you say that the pros are.
show me where the pros asked to change Indians into an elephant civ.
show me where the pros asked to change the design of the game to revolve around UU being the core of armies
Show me where the pros asked to buff Infantry UU and Militia Line.
show me where the pros asked to reduce Elephant cost by 20%.
or that SL civs should lose Knights and SL should be redesigned?


except Viper, Hera and Nili are lions. And they have called for what I have also argued multiple times in my own Threads.

So it appears my Threads are in accordance with the Lions. Even if I may not be a Lion myself.

And here’s another example: My original thread, plus PRO opinions threads.

okay show me where the pros have called for…

also that last one - viper has since rescinded his opinion and feels EA are a good unit, so yeah, stop trying to use him to support you argument about EA

If you want to say that you argue for the pros. then only argue for what the pros call for. instead of trying to use “I speak for the pros on a few issues, and use their voice to argue for what i want else where”.

the elephant archer one has been discredited on vipers front at least.
as for the rest of your threads.
where have the pros asked for the following?
turtle ship balance?

SL replacing knights?

talked about halbs being too good?

cared about the state of militia/longswords?

buffing of Arson?

buffing “unused units”?

buffing monk build time?

and when have we seen pros complain about knights/xbows meta?

If you’re going to “Argue from Authority” i’m going to require you to source each and every claim and thread you make.

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Matter of fact: the only thing CLOSE to xbows/knights meta that has ever been talked about by pros (and community in general) has been melee pathing.

I do have ideas of my own as well, just like you do, and which youve done a good job listing.
And my observations even for those always comes from the pro scene.

Not from anecdotal evidence, low level play or my own experiences