This video explains pretty well the most of criticisms about the game

Looking all the positions opened since the game had been announced. Many positions for Aoe4 and only a few for Company of Heroes.

Look at the people behind CoH3: there are different people from the original team.

For example, the art Director Schlappi, the guy Who choosed this artstyle has been engaged when AOE4 development started.

“ABOUT — Zach Schläppi” ABOUT — Zach Schläppi

AOE4 It was his First RTS.

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So no source, gotcha.

I checked mobygames for the people in lead positions mentioned in CoH3 interviews and unlike AoE4’s director none of them are long time Relic devs. Might have missed something, but I am still very much unconvinced at this point.

See my original post

"I think this:

the core team in Relic, the more experienced team (lead designers, graphic artists, UI designers) Is working on CoH3 since 2017 and we can seen this result in the recent alpha version: Amazing graphic, effects, Dynamic campaigns with a world Map similar to Total war and more. Except for some Guys, like Quinn Duffy, the team on Aoe4 is composed by new peoples and i’m pretty sure about this due the the many of working positions opened for AOE4 in the last Years"

Never said i have proofs but clues from the working positions but i could be totally wrong.

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I might myself find in some points made in the video, but honestly, this typical cancer thumbnail of a clickbait video is enough reason, to not click the link, not even just for a dislike. No matter the value of content, if someone introduces it this way, I pass… I think I getting old :smiley:

However, I want to pick one point made in the OP:
I honestly don’t think they let the “B-Team” handle AoE4. Relic is big for a genre niche, but AoE4 is their chance to become really big, like “Blizzard-does-SC2-and-everyone-talks-about-nothing-else” big, and MS also pushed it to be not only a major entry but also a blockbuster to revitalize the whole genre.

If they really put this not into the hands of the most experienced people they have, that’s either anxiety or balls of steel.

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I would rather they having Forgotten Empires people instead of new people. But well we witness the issues of thsoe decisions now.

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They Will bring their efforts on CoH3: this Is the best Relic’s IP.

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Is it though?
They just got handed Age of Empires

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Yeah, trying to stretch it out to 60 reasons was definitely unnecessary, but I can see he certainly has many valid points and speaks the truth.

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cant wait to play it, unfortunately it is coming until 2022 :face_with_head_bandage:

Don’t even know how they found it… the strange ways of the yt algorithm.

Don’t know where the dislikes come from. It’s a calmy delivered list of all the points of critique also discussed in forums and on other yt videos.
The 60 cons for 60€ thing is a bit forced, but the points itself are valid. A shitshow 101 if you will :see_no_evil:

Let me hand you the timestamp titles, your majesty. So you don’t have to live uninformed (if anything, I applaud the man for using that feature):

  • High expectations
  • New dev
  • Relics previous game failed
  • Trying to satisfy all kinds of audiences
  • Poor marketing
  • Bad stresstest timing
  • Reinventing the wheel
  • Not implementing todays standards
  • Mechanics got dumbed down
  • not e-sports ready
  • Games seem better than they are
  • Nothing too impressive (new features)
  • Price tag
  • Most PCs cant handle highest settings
  • Good fps only on lowest
  • High contrast team colors
  • No mod support on launch
  • No replays
  • No way to view map of finished games
  • No Pause
  • No ranking system
  • No map veto
  • No patrol
  • No fully customizable hotkey system
  • Forced grid hotkey layout
  • No side mouse button & wheel keybinds
  • Alt key is hardcoded
  • Standground is inconsistent
  • Crazy input delay
  • Hard to select units
  • Archer arrows always hit
  • Dull archer fights
  • Micro doesn’t feel impactful
  • Various camera problems
  • Low max zoom in team games
  • Full zoom out insufficant
  • Hills force zoom out
  • No unit selection panel
  • No menu buttons
  • Upgrade icons need redesign
  • Icon inconsistencies
  • Market UI incomplete
  • Observer mode needs more work
  • Minimap hard to read
  • Obtrusive minimap alerts
  • No fast way to chop trees
  • No shift command queue markers
  • Gigantic waypoints
  • Tower defense wonder wins
  • Building placement has little importance
  • AOE2 features AOE4 features (downgrade)
  • TC bell
  • Unresponsive lategame
  • Chat message delay
  • No click markers in fog of war
  • Many hidden eco/military civ bonuses
  • Unclickable resources

Many things could be condensed down into single topics, but yeah. It’s pretty much all stuff also found here in the forums. So I don’t know what made the pitchfork crowd throw such a hissy fit with the dislikes.

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Yeah, there are a lot of valid concerns here. Some less valid, but subjectivity is allowed.

I think people are upset that he’s saying “so don’t buy it”? That and the forced “60 reasons” thing.

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Frankly this tells me nothing about the validity of the complaints. We have people in the forums complaining about things I consider irrelevant, and even some complaining about their own speculations of how things may be in the future.

Glancing at the list it seems there are a few valid points in there, some pointless ones, some totally subjective ones, some that aren’t even accurate, etc… A tiny bit of research would have eliminated some of those since they are straight up wrong, he’s definitely fishing for clicks.

I just have more of a general policy of not clicking on click bait regardless of the topic.

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Just looking at the list I can see why it was downvoted so much.
So many of those are totally subjective, false, or already changed/known to be in the release version.
Building placement has little importance? Uh what? Guy is clueless…
No replays. It was a beta. Replays are in the release version.
TC bell. Already changed.
Games seem better than they are. Not sure what the ^(^%&% that even means.
I could go on but it’s not worth the effort.
A few of them are objectively true and a few subjective ones I agree with (minimap needs improvement) but overall it just seems like the typical hyperbole reaching for clicks. If people have doubts based on the list though, absolutely wait until release to see what that version has updated and changed.

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It’s all about how you word or say things. If they word it nicely with a few compliments and make it more like constructive criticism, they generate lots of likes. I like Age of Noob does so perfectly.

But if they think you are just throwing shade at the game with no way to improve it, then it gets a tonne of dislikes. That’s the trend on reddit but reddit hs a tonne of toxic AOEIV zealots where if you fed them an arcade game as AOE, they would defend it tooth and nail.

That being said

  • High expectations - Agree (Microsoft calling it a flagship game and the RTS revolution and then the devs saying they went above and beyond in history for this)
  • New dev - That’s not really a criticism though. Forgotten Empires was tasked with AOE remasters with worlds edge and they did phenomenal.
  • Relics previous game failed - well yes but that can introduce bias from the audience so I wouldn’t use it as a reason. Always look at new things with fresh eyes.
  • Trying to satisfy all kinds of audiences - that’s not a downside. Since that is what the previous age games did flawlessly. It wa just a matter of building upon previous games.
  • Poor marketing - I agree with this
  • Bad stresstest timing - I don’t think it would have made a difference. Judging by the AOE II community, those who wanted to play open beta multi tasked, and those who wernt going to play it in the first place, didnt. Like I played Open beta and enjoyed the greats games of Wololo Tournament.
  • Reinventing the wheel - I don’t mind stepping out of the box as long as you are not touching the things that were standard and core in the game. And you are contributing to it, not downgrading a non issue with the excuse of readability.
  • Not implementing todays standards - I agree with this, literally the downfall of RTS
  • Mechanics got dumbed down - micro inv got dumbed down, yes. Mechanics relatively the same. Made tedious things more easier actually
  • not e-sports ready - as long as the system of “gg wp” remains before any victory conditions is achieved, it will never be esports ready.
  • Games seem better than they are - this should have been merged with the “not fitting game standards”
  • Nothing too impressive (new features) - same with this one. He repeated 3 points when it should be 1.
  • Price tag - although it’s not unreasonable as a AAA price tag, the game quality is not AAA standard hence I agree
  • Most PCs cant handle highest settings - this is contradictory to his previous thing about not fitting game standards. If your game can’t handle high settings, lower them. The lowest settings is terrible for me visually but it is decent.
  • Good fps only on lowest this si similar to his previous one
  • High contrast team colors - I agree with this. Don’t like the paint bucket dump look
  • No mod support on launch - maybe they need time to work on their modding engine. Don’t want people breaking the game and then giving bad reviews as soon as the game is released
  • No replays - that is wrong. Already confirmed it is being released in achievements (but this video was made before knowing that so I forgive it)
  • No way to view map of finished games (don’t know if this won’t be a feature but it would be a nice addition. I always look back to see what I missed or what I could have done instead. Especially in campaign)
  • No Pause - this may be introduced
  • No ranking system - I think this will be inteoduced
  • No map veto - maybe it’s a feature in the game but we don’t know it. Not that big deal to me IMO. But I don’t play competitively. Or multi player. Hate it when people don’t play till the end.
  • No patrol - yeah, weird, I agree
  • No fully customizable hotkey system - they are adding it later so no big deal
  • Forced grid hotkey layout - isn’t that the same as previous?
  • No side mouse button & wheel keybinds well most gamers don’t have that kind of mouse but maybe it might be allowed? They didn’t say no.
  • Alt key is hardcoded f- for now but it might change when they allow Hitler customisation.
  • Standground is inconsistent possibly a bug. Will be foxed in final
  • Crazy input delay - again bug, not really a feature of the game and the devs are trying to address it as they’ve previously mentioned. Bugs aren’t fault of the game. Especially not in beta.
  • Hard to select units - I never had problem with this but I think AOE II DE does it best in this regard. Maybe they might introduce it I dunno.
  • Archer arrows always hit - should be merged with dumbed down mechanics, yes the heat seeking missiles are terrible.
  • Dull archer fights - this is just the previous one?
  • Micro doesn’t feel impactful - that merged like 4-5 points into 1
  • Various camera problems if you mean zoom - yes, if you mean the rotation thing he was talking about, no,
  • Low max zoom in team games - same point as before
  • Full zoom out insufficant bro, coulda merged this all into camera angle
  • Hills force zoom out - AGAIN camera angle!
  • No unit selection panel - I don’t think I ever had a problem in seeing which units were selected and how many :thinking:
  • No menu buttons - it’s i. The top right hand corner or just hit escape. Not an issue
  • Upgrade icons need redesign - I agree
  • Icon inconsistencies - again merge with previous but disagree. It’s over simplified but cinsistent
  • Market UI incomplete - dunno about this one
  • Observer mode needs more work - I don’t think we’ve seen full capability of observer mode yet
  • Minimap hard to read - yes but they announced early on they were adding tabs to simply the minimap
  • Obtrusive minimap alerts - I disagree. It tells me clearly I’m under attack and where
  • No fast way to chop trees - I think if you watch Aussie drongo games, the trees would be gone pretty fast.
  • No shift command queue markers -yes, I struggled with this. And no voice prompt to say the shift command is registering.
  • Gigantic waypoints - I liked this tbh
  • Tower defense wonder wins - that’s how wonder victories are played. But I guess they could increase the timing of wonder victories.
  • Building placement has little importance - hard disagree with influence system. And you always have to place things according to map. To prevent raids etc.
  • AOE2 features AOE4 features (downgrade) - I agree
  • TC bell - agreed but I think they mentioned shortly after beta they are addressing this
  • Unresponsive late game - I think that’s an issue with his graphics card
  • Chat message delay - don’t want people spoiling enemy strategies now aye
  • No click markers in fog of war - yeah annoying.
  • Many hidden eco/military civ bonuses - I think APEIV makes it more clearer than previous games? Not too sure
  • Unclickable resources - that’s because rss has a HP bar :joy::joy::joy: so no need

Yeah a lot of his points could have been merged. He unnecessarily repeated it ordragged it out. Also he included bugs as a critic of a game. Bugs from open beta? :face_with_raised_eyebrow: and stuff he said have also been addressed by the devs. And much of it is speculations or things being introduced later.

So yeah I do agree with some but I see why the dislikes. Shouldn’t have tried the “60 complaints for $60 thing

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If you agree with this moronic video and hate the game so much, why are you all here on the forum’s complaining, whining and nitpicking everything about it? Find a better game or a game that has everything you want. Alot of people are enjoying and super excited for this game in its current state. Some life advice: Don’t try to change everything to fit your preferences and narratives. Maybe adapt or compromise and give it a go for what it is, or move along and find a game that you want to play and if it doesn’t exist, make it yourself.

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It seems to me that you are annoyed of people’s opinions of changing things they don’t agree with, hence you want to shut down all comments you don’t agree with.

Official forum posts are for discussions. Not a positivity sphere where all the people gather together for a nice cup of tea and just talk about how great the weather is.

In an official gaming forum you will see people who like the game and people who dislike the game. All stating their opinions. And all opinions are valid. As each person is talking about their experience of a game, from a franchise they most likely love.

Just because you love AOE, doesn’t mean you have to love everything about it.

And there are lots of people who have concerns about the game as there are people who like the game. I wouldn’t gate keep official forums.

And comments such as “omg I love this game, so perf, no changes” are just as unhelpful as people saying “omg I don’t like this game, it’s trash”

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I was truly ready to dismiss the vid and skip through it before clicking it, but it’s not bad, imo. I ended up watching the whole thing. I think his calm delivery and examples here and there helped, and he went through at a decent pace. It may be true that there’s ‘nothing new’ or ‘not much new’ to seasoned AoE vets of the forum and reddit, etc., and maybe misses the mark here and there, but the vid itself seemed delivered decently enough that I didn’t mind watching. We’re all free to evaluate, absorb, or repel whatever we want from the video.

Bottom line, it miggght not be as cringe-worthy as the title suggests to you(?). But I get it that you have that set rule to not click such vid titles :slight_smile:

Bookmark captions can only say so much. If you watch the video, he explains:

  • “Building placement in AoE4, IN GENERAL, has very little tactical importance because it doesn’t block movement of units on its edges

… and then proceeds to show a short video from the game showing a villy walking between buildings:*

Again, it was a bookmark caption. He explains it in the video:

  • “We’re all a little bit desperate for a proper strategy game to come out, because the last one was, what, Starcraft 2 or AoE2:DE? So we definitely tend to be a little more forgiving with the new games that are coming out because we just want a new game to play.”

I’ve never read a book by just reading the Table of Contents, but if I did, I’d surely miss a lot of what the book spends 10-200+ pages talking about :smiley:

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Adding some additional comments to your list.

Now that replays have been confirmed, not being able to see the map immediately after the game concludes is an easier pill to swallow, as you can review the game instead. I will say I hope the devs reconsider this and allow us to review the map after the end of the game.

In a recent interview video on the Age of Empires youtube page, the devs confirmed there will be a ranked ladder on release. It is the seasons that will be post-launch.

To be fair, patrol hasn’t been used in this franchise since Age of Mythology. Age of Empires III DE just got the patrol feature. AoE4 has been in development for several years now and I wouldn’t expect them to add patrol a mouth out from release when AoE3 DE just got it less than a month ago.

The default AoE2 DE hotkeys use a similar system, although you can change them to not use a grid system.

IIRC, aoe2 was the last title to use the accuracy mechanic. I think AoM had a chance to miss, but that’s a different mechanic than what we have in AoE2. I’m pretty sure both AoE3 and AoEO has auto ballistics (well, maybe except for siege weapons).

I think his issue was that he wanted to see each unit individually in the UI so that he can select certain ones (low hp vils, split off a few units, etc.). However, IIRC, AoE2 was the last game in the series to use the feature he wants. AoM onward only told you how many of each unit you have selected.

I think the issue is that in AoE2, ranked games are played in conquest mode instead of standard. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be surprised if AoE2 team games would end the same way.

I agree that AoE4 needs to do a better job at displaying civ bonuses in a more clear manner, but AoE2 has its fair share of unclear civ bonuses.

In conclusion, the creator of the video stated that he played SC2 and AoE2 mainly, which makes me insinuate that he didn’t play AoE3, AoM, or AoEO extensively. Several of the “issues” from above might be explained away by Relic trying to take pieces from all the games and not just AoE2.

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Just to follow up after watching the video again.

1 High Expectations: This is only an issue if the game doesn’t live up to those expectations. At the moment, some believe it has while other don’t (I personally was impressed by the beta).

7 Reinventing the Wheel: Doesn’t explain what he means (at least on that point).

8 Missing Today’s Standards: Again, doesn’t give examples at this point of the video. Only mentions not being able to select units in UI individually.

9 Dumbed Down Gameplay: Again, no examples. Later in the video, he mentions the archers.

17 High Contrast Team Colors: He said it didn’t necessarily bother him, but it might bother others. He brings up it makes it look cartoonish. This argument is based on the idea that “cartoon” = “for kids,” which is pretty antiquated. Also, I believe the devs mentioned that they went in this direction because the period was more colorful than what is popularly believed. I’m not an expert in the Medieval period, but I know in ancient Greece and Rome, the nice pristine marble statues we have were actually fully colored with bright pigments.

34 No Skirmisher: Men-at-Arms take up this role (HRE and English get them in Feudal). And horsemen are only inefficient when there’s an archer ball (same thing happens in AoE2).

35 Micro less important: Sure, you don’t have the arrow dodging of AoE2, but kiting is still a thing. And you still have to make sure you units are engaging against the unit they counter.

53 Building Placement no tactical importance: Buildings can still create narrow corridors, which reduces the number of melee units that can engage your archers, for instance.

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OK great, that’s nice. Buildings don’t block units from moving. And?

Do we? Players were more forgiving with Dow3 and WC3 reforged because they were new? I think this is a poor generalization. People know what they like.
The guy just doesn’t have anything of substance to say.