Been testing all kinds of artillery units; currently on Haudenosaunee civ. I’m sad not many people play haude in general as they have VERY unique siege units but when played are VERY rarely used.
First off the light cannon the more common art that will more then likely be used IF they make it into age 4 so already a big wall has been placed in it use/availability in a game.
Over all stat wise i think the light cannon is great where it is currently as its ROLE is similar to the flaming arrow but they do lean in different directions as flaming arrow leans in general purpose art close to a falc but being decent at dealing with other artillery as well; the light cannon on the other hand is a general purpose art that leans closer to a culverin then to a falc as it does less damage to infantry than standard art or a flaming arrow but does more damage to art with more range and still be able to do decent damage to buildings.
IF i was going to change anything it would be to make it available in age 3 with a reduced range ( closer to that of a flaming arrow in age 3) with adjusted stats for age 3. If any buffs are to be given it would be a bonus to LIGHT infantry; I know its called a LIGHT cannon but for it to struggle to kill even some skirm/bows/cross bows (light infantry with generally less health) even with its 2x to infantry is a little sad. I would let it keep the 2x but also give it a 1.5x or even 1.25x for light infantry (50%-25% bonus damage) only and with this even the more meatier light infantry can be 1 shot by the cannon with a direct hit (only has area damage of 2).
The mantlet for its raw stats and cost it a great unit the down side that its slow and im not just talking about its movement speed, its attack animation, its turning/response time is VERY slow. At the best of times I’ve only ever used them to siege forts while under fire from range units in age 3 or having a battle in or around my siege work shop with enemy ranged units around it. Even then it never really felt like they did much other then soak some damage and at the worst of times they are to late for the party as everything is dead or im already dead/deing to be much of use.
So I have 2 ideas with them and that is to keep them the same as they are and add a card that allows them to soak damage for nearby allies from range damage only. OR just make all there animations faster and response times faster and MAYBE a SLIGHT speed increase in age 4 or 5 (depends on how the animation increase looks like).
And lastly the RAM… LoL.
I know it was given a hand attack in the last patch but at times it almost feels like it hurts it more for what its suppose to do (destroy buildings/walls), though i say this it did give it 1 thing it really couldn’t do before and that’s melee block units AND kill artillery (ever seen a Otto bombard get a train ran on by 5 of these things… its funny!). Honestly for its cost and it raw stats its not a bad unit for what its supposed to do its that its awkward to use just like the mantlet. I know they are called rams but damn these things need/feel as if they need to be pressed/inside a building before they start attacking it and with their awkward pathing doesnt help much either. They tend to body block each other as well as do the enemy vils; ive had 4 of these guys dance around an estate with vils on it trying to get in melee range for 10 seconds before they did any damage , doesnt happen all the time but the fact that it happens at all is frustrating when trying to make this unit work. Ive also gotten vil blocked trying to kill a tc/fort/tower by just loading enough vils inside and then unloading them just outside the building creating a perfect wall of vils around the building with only 1 vil in the way from the building(mind you that was a big brain move there).
A simple solution would be to just give there siege/hand attack 1 range , kind of like spear men but shorter. OR give them 1 area attack that splashes onto buildings from attacking units nearby (anti vils body blocking , damn tree huggers).
You cannot give 1 of the games strongest civs light cannons in age 3 lol.
As for mantlets they’re not bad, if you mix them in with your units and opponent just attack moves everything then they absorb a ton of damage.
Rams I think perhaps need a further buff in ranged resistance so they can actually get close, leave them vulnerable to melee but very resistant to ranged damage.
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mantlets need to automatically move to the front of formations and walk at 4 speed and they’d be phenomenal units for what they are. Right now they’re slow and hide behind the units they should shield
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Yeah it would make things easier if they did that, though I suppose you can just ctrl group them as you’d pull them back from cav.
you definitely still need them on ctrl groups for that, but just for that initial engagement it would be nice to have them forward by default
3 Likes
As i said its stats would be adjusted to age 3 with the same range as a flaming arrow in age 3( range 28 i think). This is simply a utility change maybe even reduce its damage to infantry in age 3 to simply act as a culv.
The strongest in age 3? Not really sure what makes you say that, if you could explain your reason that would be great thank you. Though I can say they do have the easyest macro with the card that makes most of your units cost wood/food allowing to really have a strong mix of units that are needed to counter others in age 3. I would say age 2 as they have the fastest age up in the game currently with the messenger allowing them to have a stupidly fast rush with 10 units in your base by the 5 min mark some times faster with the right treasures.
Also in team games with the fasttest age up it can use what i would call one of the best team cards in age2 in the game the team 3 vill card as the sooner you send it the stronger it gets for your team. It makes your team think they just got another age 1 vil card again right after sending theirs and its still helps your eco as well sense you aged up so fast. Also being able to pump out musk/hussar in age 2 with ONLY wood and not gold is amazing utility (even though they are both weaker then normal musk/hussar)
In short Haudenosaunee really shines best in age 2 whether your rushing in solo or supporting your team by booming/ecoing (rushing in solo with cav is viable in team games just to slow the enemys eco while your team booms).
There was a time in Legacy when the Mantlets were 1-pop, did more damage than an Ashigaru, had more range resist than they did now, and did 89 siege damage to buildings on top of having nearly 1k health.
They were nerfed out of existence as an act of mercy for the rest of us.
The Native civs all need rehauls from the ground up to make any sense. They were designed to essentially be “European, but take a left and make them lite,” and they suffer for it.
They can be 1 pop with the age 3 card and buffed again with more range res with an age 4 card. As for the stats they had before they are still the same as legacy the only differents is that all the cards that buffed infantry also buffed mantlet as they are classed as infantry (their where 4 infantry cards that buffed ALL infantry and 3 siege cards for damage/health and maybe 1 more) they had so many buff cards that in TREATY games they where just a mobile wall that did good damage and siege damage with so little resource cost/ pop cost that as long as your team took care of any mass cav, they could just soak the art/culv shots because of the health pools and cost effectiveness.
My goal isnt to make any unit OP but to do mirco adjustments and to have them stay with in their intended roles and make them FEEL like they are doing the job they are supposed to do. And to see more general use of them.
El mantelete solo necesita absorción del daño a los aliados, después de todo es un mantelete, un gran escudo que protege a la infantería.
5 Likes
probably the only place that ability should exist at all.
Personally i find light cannons to be overly fragile.
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Haud are already very strong, giving them age 3 artillery is just too much the same as if you gave lakota artillery. Currently the lack of it is pretty much their only weakness. That being said buffing the ram a bit to make it viable siege would be nice.
Matla hospitaller can deflect damage from nearby units but Haud mantlet can not.
AOM ram is 99% piece (similar to range) resist but Haud Ram is only 50% range resist.
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They should definitely give mantlets the deflect ability and buff ram/mantlet speed and ranged resistance. Both should be 4 speed and the ram at least should be 75% RR. They both must be the least used units in the game.
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Haude siege units dont need any buff, in fact I would remove the pop reduction from canons
Rams are too spammable and take down buildings too fast. Idk how worse they are now that can attack at melee but before that change they were strong enough.
In treaty they have the best boom and their army becomes a mass hard to stop
I highly doubt that it is the rams that makes them OP in treaty lol.
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I didnt say that, but Haude can easily spam them to take down forward bases easily, they werent as counterable as flail elephants are
So it’s hauds eco that is the issue in treaty not the ram. The ram sucks with less than 4 speed and only 50% RR, I’ve just tried using them and they just get picked off easily by ranged units. Considering their only purpose is siege they need to be able to get up close to a building so they need 4 speed and higher RR, they’d still be weak to cav/melee and are no replacement for cannons but they should be fit for purpose.
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This has been a popular suggestion before - it’s a no brainer, so I hold out hope the Devs one day look at it.
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For me I have tried as possible in team game, and for team game situation only.
Ram is only useful for destroying opponent important building, such as factory or wonder when they are concentrating on frontline microing their army, and he didn’t discover your ram is going to his base.
Even mantlet will melt under range attack in team game. There is no way for ram going directly to hit opponent forward base, no one does that.
For these 2 siege units, I can say 0% people had trained them in a normal team game. All these 2 unit in a team game means that Haude is winning this game and he is trolling.
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If it works in treaty is due to battlefield construction, not that much used in supremacy. With it, place foundry next to the forward base and with Fertility dance just spam them.
Im not saying they are unstoppable, but defenitely annoying