On open maps, you can take map control with scouts if the enemy goes fast castle. 4-5 scouts don’t delay much if you invest into more farms, you’ll get a better eco
Their scout rush is very good. Extra attack from forging really helps with killing vills. The problem is the follow-up.
But if you look at top tier scout rush civs like Mongols and Franks, their eco allows them to get to feudal with fewer pop and thus faster. Attack doesn’t mean anything if the enemy manages to wall up before you get your scouts to his base
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And that the whole point. You can go up faster to feudal and do a scout rush, but you will have a weaker economy…and magyars don’t really have anything to compensate, as opposed to say Franks (the effectiveness of Mongols is very dependent on the presence of hunt, so I wouldn’t put them at the same level). Then your opponent will simply outdo the magyars in terms of economy…and you are most likely done for.
I feel like magyars are supposed to be a very aggressive civ, much like huns, but at the same their give bonii don’t provide any relevant discounts (i think the free blacksmith upgrades is a minor bonus overall) or eco boosts.
this is what i implied from the start…
everyone here is pointing out how diverse magyar are, but as i said, A and S tier just perform so much better in those roles… im not saying magyar are trash like the guy who thinks im proposing some huge buff, this forum loves jumping to conclusions…
yeah that could work, but with no eco, other races can do this better, 1 extra attack on m@a, ill have to run tests but i dont think that extra damage changes too much, armour is always better for melee units…
with what eco? franks, slavs, teutons will do it faster… nevermind knights, aztecs and mayans will be rekking your base, vikings will be rekking your base… and they arent so 1 dimensional thanks to their eco they dont HAVE to go cav to benefit from their bonuses (since infantry by then are negligible, whoever said magyar spears are better from extra damage ???)
It’s something that you should however grab sooner or later, so having it for free improve your over MaA rush and your scout rush.
Magyars overall have one of the strongest scout rush, and other decent options too, they don’t have an eco bonus but they have the possibility of taking the lead by dealing a lot of damage in feudal, and snowball in castle and imp.
They can also go for archers, having +2LoS is actually a really underrated bonus, but make your archer rush a lot more dangerous. And then you can easily translate into scout.
The strength of magyars is that even without any eco bonus they can open with everything, they have bonus for archers, infantry and cavalry in feudal, and they can easily switch to one unit tipe to another.
They are unpredictable.
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I only play Magyars, I have almost 200 games with them. I chose them because they have no eco bonus so I don’t become dependent on them, so I don’t mind that and should be kept the same.
I 100% agree their mid castle and transitions are hard and normaly not viable (though the tech options are there and tempting!)
Solution 1: increase the scout discount to reach castle faster. (Maybe unfair post imp though…)
Solution 2: one off discount, eg free husbandry or no food cost on light cav upgrade, so unused scouts still hold significance in castle and aren’t worthless.
Solution 3: cheaper archery range as mentioned before, to ease the switch. (Tatars got a lot of these transition bonuses for the same reason, really expensive!)
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I don’t think so cheap ranges make them better since Magyars have lots of bonuses in the feudal age. As good m@a as burmese, cheap scouts, archers with great los.
I think all units should kill wolves with a single hit. They are kinda underrated imo.
And they should have a bigger tech tree: Magyars had gunpowder and great defenses in the medieval ages. (Magyars Huszars should look differently, they look Polish hussars with Magyar shields, although huszars existed in the medieval ages: “Végvári Huszár” and the name of Corvinian Army makes no sense because Corvinus mainly had heavy cavalry in his army) As people have already mentioned civs with no eco bonuses should have a wide tech tree, but Magyars don’t have it
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This hs never been the case. Byzantines and Chinese have both Eco Bonii, and wide Tech Trees.
Magyars have a wide Tech Tree too:
-Campion and Halberdier
-FU Arbalest, FU Elite Skirmisher and FU Heavy Cav Archer (with a bonus UT)
-FU Hussar and FU Paladin
-Capped Ram, Onager and Heavy Scorpìon with Siege Engineers
-FU Galleon, Cannon Galleon, Heavy Demo and Fast Fire Ship with Shipwright and Dry Dock.
-Only miss Stone Shaft Mining, the worst Eco upgrade, and the most skippable one.
-Trash anti-Siege UU, that is very inexpensive (80 Food and 10 Gold) even without the UT that makes them Trash.
Magyars have a lot of options!
They are also very dominant in open maps. Only faring poorly in closed maps or walled maps.
All civs need weaknesses, and closed maps are the Magyars weakness.
You save a lot of Ressource for the free black Smith upgrades. That’s an indirect Eco boost. They force you to play aggressive.
Mid game, Magyars are OK not the best but not worst. Late post imp you have strong UU with no gold cost. That helps a lot. You have a lot of option on the late game. There are worst civ.
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I agree, there in an okay/good place right now.
Just responding to the thread, if something did change I’d like a small buff to help them transition smoother or reach castle age better. (Hence my 3 solutions earlier). No need for bombard cannons (though would be nice), even if they had it in history, such decisions have to be made for balance.
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I also think the Magyars Huszar Takes too long to train (16 seconds). It’s a trash unit that should be spammed but takes longer to train than a boyar and if you want 20 of them and only have I castle (not a priority to build them considering no eco bonus) you have to wait over 5 minutes. That would be okay if you then had 20 boyars or cataphract but 20 huszars aren’t as impressive…
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Not to unearth an old topic but they have underperformed in 3 of the last 4 patches as seen below. With the current patch being particularly bad at 40% win rate in high elo. Using the last four patches to show an overall trend as there aren’t enough games otherwise.
In particular, it looks like they are slightly below average in the mid / super late game but struggle in the early and late game. I think this is due to a few issues:
- Their eco bonuses (I consider free blacksmith / lower cost scouts as primarily eco bonuses though there is a timing savings for the blacksmith techs that is more military) are not super impactful in the dark age / early feudal
- Their bonus of villagers killing wolves in 1 hit was already dubious value but was further reduced when wolf numbers were reduced
- They actually have very few bonuses overall as a civilization at 3 though would consider the wolf bonus essentially non-existent at this point
As a solution, I would offer a few options for consideration:
- Remove the kill in one hit wolf bonus for villagers and replace with +1 / +1 armor. While not a direct eco bonus which keeps with the prior situation for Magyars, this does make their villagers more survivable in the early game against raiding. I think the one hit kill for wolves made their early game slightly more stable in situations where they would lose a villager to a wolf and this bonus keeps that but expands it to make it actually useful
- Either all cavalry (scouts, knights, magyar huszars) get +1 / +1 armor or all cavalry attack 20% faster. I think that this will be a general boost across all ages that should make their win rates much more respectable while not making their super late game too oppressive as +1 melee armor is still pretty worthless against spear line. 20% faster attack speed keeps their knights / cavaliers weaker than Bulgarians still offset a bit by the fact that Stirrups needs to be researched. This does affect Paladins and should help their mediocre 30-40min late game. I don’t think either of these two will be too oppressive though lean towards faster attacking cavalry as +1 PA might make Paladins a bit too strong against archers
My guess is that this would make them relatively average overall but obviously these can be tweaked if they overshoot. I do think they need some love right now though.
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You’re right, Magyars have certainly underperformed the past few patches. I already posted three options above that would greatly help Magyars with transitioning, and I would be happy with any of them, but I have a couple more alternative ideas.
For an early game boost:
- Magyars start with two farms, or with a lumbar camp (like empire wars mode I suppose). This is less about historical significance and more about an eco bonus (that doesn’t copy off another civ).
For transition / later bonus
- Make Corvinian Army unique tech knock 10 gold off the cost of CA as well as Magyar Hussars.
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That’s some pretty unique ideas! I really like the starting buildings. It might be tough to Code a lumber camp though? With all the funny formations forests could have… Especially if we consider whack maps like kilimanjaro (spelling?) or acropolis where the trees are super scarce.
The farms might be the easiest to code at least?
By after using/facing magyars some more I’ve come to realise they aren’t as bad as i thought.
If anything it’s only their early(and maybe mid in closed) game that is luck lustre in the current walling meta. The late game CA is still a good unit, and magyars have situationally the best CA, along with arguably THE best trash (their own huszars) in the game and even have FU paladins
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Bombard Cannon could be a good addition at least.
they dont need any late game buff
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But in what way Bombard cannons can hurt them in balance terms?
They have bad siege anyways
dealing with halb onager maybe
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