Thoughts on Magyar?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
41

They’re not really average at any point in the game at high elo currently. Their issue is that they are very predictable with CA / heavy cav / hussars and have very few bonuses (basically two with the villager one hit kill being useless now with lower wolf levels)

I think the cav archers are fine and would rather not buff them unless there are general changes to them. Additionally, I think free buildings just needs way too much coding to get properly and would rather give a proper economy bonus that can be tuned.

I don’t think changing their identity from a cavalry focused civilization by adding additional siege or infantry is the way to go as you lose a ton of faction flavor. Bombard cannons would be too strong in my view - they already have +1 range on CA + Huszar Siege bonus.

I think villager +1/+1 armor to replace the one hit kill on wolves and either a +1/+1 armor or faster attack rate for cavalry would bring them back into line here.

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42

Too much Incas
I prefer extra HP (like 20%-25% more HP), is a unused bonus also.
Before Loom would be like 30 HP, and with Loom like 48 HP

43

That’s fine by me +HP% would work as well but I do think they need something to help their cavalry as they don’t receive enough given their predictability

44

Long time ago, when that tech " Hunting Dogs" existed, they had it for free but was removed from the game because it granted an unreasonable advantage, and Magyars already have a lot for their early game.

45

any villager HP/armor bonus should apply after feudal. Someone on reddit posted a 33% cheaper stable techs bonus idea for Persians, perhaps Magyars could use it idk

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46

Magyars are the only civ with fully upgradable Paladin and Arbalest. Then they have stronger cav Archer. Finally they are quite solid to play.

Just they are missing small Eco bonus for early game.

My proposal:
Mill, lumber camp, Mining camp give +5 population space
or
Mill, lumber camp, Mining camp built 100% faster

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47

One of these is a really decent buff the other is almost negligible. How can you justify the one vs the other? :joy::joy:

Either they need a big buff or they need a negligible buff? Which one is it?

In dark age this saves them 2 houses already. Which saves them 50 wood on top of the vil time.

By the end of feudal, what’s that an average of at least 3 houses?

In comparison the other buff is less effective than the inca team bonus…

Im not saying we shouldnt get the pop one. But the other is a waste of time(excuse the pun) and if they really need the pop one then they need more than the build time one for sure…

48

Not currently they don’t. Not in the wall meta. And not in comparison to the eco boosted s tier civs. And not when we look at win rate according to time.

49

I don’t think they can have had the consistently low win rate that they do and just be missing a small eco bonus. They do have fully upgradeable archers / paladins but they have no civ bonuses that significantly affect those. They probably have the overall weakest civ bonuses.

Their issue is that they are very predictable and are completely countered by trash. That’s why despite having perhaps the best trash unit in the game they don’t have a great late game win rate. That being said, I don’t think we need to alter their identity by giving them Siege Onager or something but I do think either their archers or cavalry need something. +5 housing space / 100% eco building speed isn’t going to make a real difference to get Magyars back to at least within range of average

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50

Most of the civ are predictable and even that they are strong.
Mayans for example will go for Arbalest, plumes or eagles. And even if you know that you still cna lose the game. Sure the El Dorado eagles makes the difference.

Magyars have strong cav Archer but most of the player prefer to go for Paladin. That is predictable because of the blacksmith bonus but they still have the option to play with cav Archer. In another thread we already talk about the bad state of this unit. A general buff would indirectly buff Magyars too. Therefore I don’t think we have to change anything for the late game.

And don’t forget the Magyar Husar what is awful strong for a none gold unit.

Magyars have the best scout rush in the game, that force the enemy to fully wall his base fast that give you more space for your weaker Eco bonus.

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51

With parthian tactics (remember +4 dmg) and 1/1 for CA they decimate halberdiers. Their huszars also counter skirms better than a lot of cavalry since you aren’t losing gold on top of their very high power.

So they actually aren’t as hard countered by trash as other civs are…

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52

Magyars onestly aren’t that bad in my opinion, their scout rush is one of the best, and if they want, they can also go for archers, which aren’t just FU, but they also have a small bonus (nothing too crazy, but +2LoS can help in an archer rush).

Now I know that people say that they lack any eco bonus, but just the fact that the can pull off perfectly both kind of rush, actually make the magyars difficult to anticipate, so they aren’t actually prevedibile like people says, it’s just that everyone always focus only on the scout rush.

Also, the immunity vs wolves help them for eventually sneaking a stables/ranges or for a Trush strategy.

In imp they have the best CA, the best trash unit (MH) with cheap FU hussars, FU skirms, FU arbs and paladins (the only one that have both) and decent halbs.

Their main problem is that they have to do damage in feudal, otherwise they fall behind in castle, and that is more difficult when you are facing a civ with a strong early eco (like celts and mongols).

They could use a buff, but it has to be really small, because the civ is pretty much balanced as it is.

I suggest to give them a small discount on their military buildings (barracks, ranges, stables) like 25 or 50 wood less.

This wouldn’t only further improve their already good scout and archers rush, but it would also help them smother transition from scouts to archers and (viceversa) in feudal, further improving their flexibility theme, and **making them even more faster and imprevedibile. **

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53

But they do have 2 eco bonii: progressively cheaper Scout line units, and free Melee Attack upgrades.
Magyars do save food, if they play aggressively and Scout Rush.

If, on the other hand, you play walling up and booming, then the Magyars eco bonii are negligible indeed, but that is just now how they are supposed to be played.

54

Well, those aren’t properly eco bonuses, since it doesn’t directly help the eco, however I agree that are good bonus and that help them a lot.

I said what people usually says about them, not that I completely agree…

Still, some small bonus wouldn’t broke them, but it should be in the same direction as those that they already have.

I agree, that is simply something that magyars aren’t good at, and that is fine.

55

The meta is all about archers, even with the last patch and that’s fundamentally why magyars don’t do well. They get melee attack and cheap scouts but it’s better for them to go archer into x-bow.

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56

Player usually built two lumber camp, one mill and one mining till feudal age. That saves 4 houses building time and 100 wood.

It sounds not really amazing but it is a great Eco bonus for early game. But honestly that could make them maybe too powerful for their feudal rush.

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57

They do, they save Food and Gold, aswell as research time.

Feudal Archers get countered by Scouts, and Magyars have great Feudal Scouts. They also get great Feudal Archers.
They get Arbs too, so they do well until Imp, and Hussars with free Melee Upgrades are a great screen for Arbs, since they melt Skirms and Onagers in early Imp.

All in all, Magyars are made for aggressive play. They cannot just sit back and boom, all their bonii (including the wolf one-shot) just screams : “RUSH!”

They are rewarded by building Stables and Archery Ranges at their enemy’s doorstep, and just ramming in Scouts and Archers, into Knights and Crossbows.

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58

That’s why I suggested a small discount for the 3 military buildings.

You can potentially invest the spared food on vills, but overall, an eco bonus is something that directly give you more resources, or allow you to save on investments on eco itself.

At least, that what I mean when I say that it’s an eco bonus.

More by skirms than scouts, but those could be decent too.

59

Not really. Archers are too easily protected by a spear or two and the scouts never get inside the walls to do damage and the food cost means a late castle age. There’s a reason they are not often played past 1300 ELO.

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60

I am skeptical of it, not because it would not be a good bonus, but because I believe it would overcharge them.
We are talking about a civ with FU arbs and FU Paladins here!

On the contrary, I believe you are supposed to use to pump out more units and keep pressure.

True, but until Fletching, they get dunked on by regular Scouts, and Magyars have +1 Attack cheap Scouts, which is really good for kepping enemy Archer and Villager numbers low.

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