I’ve only played a couple PvP matches with them so far, have messed around vs AI a bit with them and saw many of the RBW matches they were used in. So far, they feel amazing and I’m actually thinking they’ll get nerfed at some point.
With their military schools pumping free units, Vizier points being very useful (more free units and buffs!), Mehtas buffing their army and good, solid landmarks (I think they are maybe the only civ without a dud landmark) they seem quite strong. They can put amazing pressure by late feudal/early castle and seem quite flexible overall, thanks to their landmarks and vizier points.
Free 8 sheep and a 10% mining buff with Anatolian Hills early in the game combined with their infinite berry landmark gives them such a strong start. Then they can grab early imams and AOE heal to get a jump on relics and sacred sites as soon as Castle hits.
Siege plus Janisarries plus archers plus AOE heal imams seems like a good deathball in Castle age. Some maps feel a little cramped to really get an optimal building layout with the armory, military schools, production buildings and, if you go for the tower landmark near all that.
I forsee a nerf as well. They have roo much earlier tempo with MS opening. And can play super duper turtle vs aggressive civs with over 2700 food safely under or near their TC, effectively for free. Likewise the imam can be used for fast castle relic yoinks as well as defensively (imam dont work well for standard feudal pushes bc they get sniped and you cant get more until castle, but if you’re sitting under a tc or tower you can pull them to safety and very effectively defend).
Most civs if you stall their eco it directly translates into slower production. While technically this os true too for ottomans, they’re the only civ that still get their passive generation turn into military use by simply having the buildings up.
i was thinking like you at first but if you play against good players who knows what he is doing they are so hard to win and military schools are too expensive personally im making them after 2 unit building and a 1 blacksmith i found it very hard to hold on otherwise and their janissary is still problematic i didnt get the efficeny i was expecting against cavalry.Sipahi with fortitude ability is fine tho but bonus damage they take when they used it still unsettling,their siege crew ability and great bombard is the best part of the ottomans
I got a whole thread dedicated to the nuisance of the MS. Gonna dig it back up to show you the maff and why MS are actually busted!! And might get nerfed…
Also would you consider these top players at woloo good players??? Bc ottoman on land has a postive win rate with all of their opening starting with a dark age military school???
i didnt watch the begining i jumped to the battles are you sure they all did opening with ms because its only good against mali which they have low hp houses
They are strong - probably A tier. Their eco bonus is their free units - which means that if you ever max out you have no eco bonus. So Ottoman requires you to play aggressively and trade armies.
I really like their landmarks - each one seems useful. Janissaries are also really useful against Cavalry - they are not a generalist unit like the Handcannon, but they are good in their intended role.
bro none of the pro palyers in wololo did a ms opening i looked in too so far belive me against a good player its very very hard to handle with that opening it cost too much and create units so slow their strength comes from cheaper military buildings
You are utterly lost and have zero clue what youre talking about…?
Literally the last game played on A stream of redbull wolo between ML (Ottomans) vs puppypaw (delhi) starts with a MS in dark age followed by super fsst aggression with 2 schools a free mehter and lots and lots of archers?? Do i have to clip it for you???
Check out this clip! RedBull streaming Age of Empires IV! Twitch
You’re watchijg the wrong game? Bc every land ottoman game i recall started with a Dark age MS… and these are the pros? No?
i looked in to day2 and none of them started with ms but the thing you are talking about is at day3 im watching it and it worked on delhi but if it was french or english it wont and he aged up so late and if the military building isnt cheaper for ottomans he would mostly losed it because its cost too much to handle and in that game he get caught so unluckly at the begining but the devs are actually did the right choice by lowering their military building cost their only big advantage is that
Ottomans aren’t that bad. That’s what my thoughts are but the Horse Archer still needs to be given to the Ottomans because the Ottomans without the Horse Archer is like the French without the Knights given that both cases are historically inaccurate. If the developers wanted AoE4 to be more historically accurate, then they should’ve had the Horse Archer be a shared unit accessible to civilizations that historically did horseback archery and NOT just being available to the Rus in the first place especially given the generic name of this unit. It’s such a total joke for the Horse Archer to be a unique unit of the Rus when the Horse Archer was historically used by many civilizations throughout Europe and Asia.
Anywho this is what makes military schools so strong.
First off many civs do NOT start with 100 additional resources.
Delhi starts with 50w etc likewise English and rus? French gets discounts on gathering locations so effectively it’s as they start off with 100 resources more (if they made 4 facilities). Lastly HRE starts with 100 less resources cache but a prelate already fielded which translate into waaaaay more than 100 additional resources in short time.
Secondly consider the effects cost of the first school 100 wood and 50 stone and the 15s walk time (round trip) with 5 villagers and 30s build time. Assuming a value of 0.66 res/s gather rate; the real effective cost of the FIRST school is (105s vil-sec + 150 resources = 219.3 effective resources). So for an effective 220 resources you get something that generates military units at a base rate of 80 res-valued-units per 67.5 sec (worth 1.79 villagers gathering).
But it’s even better thwn that!!! Every other civ that has passive resources generation NEEDS to build production to utilize the passive resources, delhi sacred sites, rus bounty and hutting cabins, mongols ovoo etc, mali cows and pit mines. But your MS school is both your passive generation And your production. That step saved is huge!! And woefully underestimated.
Then!!! You add the fact that your cheap blacksmith (a building everyone that has feudal aggression intent will need eventually) speeds up your production by 25%, 33%, 40% (60%)–before the pzivor point 25% buff; this creates amazing synergy.
laslty the return on investment on the full resources price of the MS is sub 3mins without BSM (1 spear or archer plus 1 spahi) or 3min 36s if you decide to make 2 spahi or 1 infantry with 1 mehter. Remember these are the times without a BSM…
There were a few dark age MS openings in RBW so far - game 3 of day 1 first set - IAMMAGIC vs MarineLord for example. I think it’s a great opening vs French, Mongols and Rus in particular since you’ll likely need the spears anyway.
English isn’t highest. So far the win rates are:
Chinese - 75%
French - 69%
English - 61%
Mongols - 60%
HRE - 57%
Delhi - 55%
Ottoman - 40%
Abbasid - 21%
Rus - 13%
Mali - 0%
Obviously a very small sample size and new civs are less familiar/comfortable at this point. I honestly hope OE doesn’t receive any nerfs because I love their playstyle so far. And yes it’s too early to judge really.
Where have you been that you think this is remotely true?
Everywhere. Literally everywhere there’s been some vocal screaming about how bad Otto’s are.
Yeah they’re great. I love the civ and the design.
Jan’s have proven to be excellent and most likely over tuned. It’s great all their LMs have a use, hoping the other civs get this type of LM treatment. And I love the dynamic between sipahi and Jan.
Mehters are just the cherry on top
It’s interesting how the previously perceived malians were OP, and now people are considering them to be undet powered in 1v1 open maps, while the opposite with ottomans
But then I’m loving the general balance changes anyway
Lol - this is not a ‘balance topic’, it’s just chattin’. Can always count on the random numbered, "I just joined the forum 3 minutes ago but have very strong emotions about the Ottoman Empire’ alt accounts to miss the boat completely though…
Now, Ottomans will definitely need to be given the Horse Archer (the Horse Archer would then become a shared unit just like the Imam, which wa since unique to the Abbasid Dynasty but became available to other civs with the addition of Malians and Oftomans, both of which happen to be Islamic civs) because Ottomans historically used archers on horseback.
