The game balance take the game as ptiority always not everything tournaments, this game depend on balance and how the things going on thru the ladder games and yet we still have balance problems about civs were 20 years ago
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and the point is - if goths are as strong as you say they are - why don’t tournaments reflect that?
goths literally just got nerfed on ladder, despite their horrendous tournament performance.
the only reason their ladder winrates even look decent is no one knows how to play against them
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Sorry, I had to post this. Credit to /M_Verdoux on Reddit.
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NP man it is just a discussion and you are welcome 
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Goth see moderate use in Pro Tournaments and were only moderately successful in those. In most recent tier list by pros there were also placed rather average.
Their 1v1 winrate on Arabia across the average of all ELOs is 50%.
It seems as they are perfectly balanced right now. Much more then most civs…
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Most hilarious AOE2 MP meme I have never seen. 
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Not even close to the most common bans which were probably Aztecs, mayans and chinese, and when they were banned was because of the free loom bonus, they didn’t want to deal with a vil laming at min 3 with the potential militias with the extra gold not because of the huskarls.
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Why does anyone argue with equalizer? 
Like how many more of these posts does he need to make before people realise its pointless trying to change his mind about any of the things he thinks up?
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Saw this the other day. I think it’s hilarious. I’m probably guilty of the bottom left. But we see all the others so often except the elo one? Do people really do that?
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though of course its a stupid example, a civ like this just should not exist in Age of Empires. (although Britons with FU champs should be far from an auto win…)
The Problem with goths is, that in most elos it just comes down to a civ win, if the goths get to a castle without being far behind. It is just bad design.
Actually I think the best way to fix goths would be to not give them additional cost reduction on infantery in imp, but give them a food discount on Hand Cannons. So that they actually can do something against Infantery civs that they usually heavily struggle against.
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Goths are an extremely complicated civ to balance since they lack the very units that the entire game is repeatedly balanced around. (knights and xbows)
Italians already have cheaper HCs and nobody cares. This change won’t help goths until HCs are actually fixed. Unless you make them even cheaper than Italian HCs??
Exactly this. But the thing with lower elos is players don’t realise if they simply pressured the goths sooner it would be tremendously easier. Instead they try to boom and out match them in imperial. It shouldn’t matter that goths have e huskarls. They should already be dying in castle thanks to their terrible tech, unit and eco composition.
People are generally just too lazy to learn to fight goths as opposed to playing the same learned builds that work on everyone else.
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food for thought to those "goths are doom on archer civs.
https://aoestats.io/civ/Goths/RM_1v1 here is all 1v1
goths are not even 52% winrate.
their best winrates are against cumans, indians, persians, koreans, and lithuanians. only one of those civs would i consider a traditional archer civ.
their worst winrates are against japanese, vikings, teutons, ethiopians, and burmese.
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Which is incredibly funny, because Ethiopians is an Archer civ, whose only defense from Huskarl spam is the Shotel Warrior, a unit I always said wins out against Huskarls, and was laughed at for it.
Goths are not OP, they are actually quite lame if you raid them early.
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Yeah, I know this is problematic, but there needs to be a way for goths to not just autolose against anything with FU champs.
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I don’t like the +10 pop in imperial age though. This means you can’t really play games in AOE2 with a low population limit. If you set the limit at 50, a Goths player has a limit of 60 and that difference is huge. On the other hand, if you set the limit at 500, the Goths player has a limit of 510 which is basically meaningless.
If your opponent plays only casually and doesn’t really know the tech tree, Goths are obviously super strong. I recently played a team game in which my ally massed skirmishers against a flood of Huskarls, that didn’t work great (though we still won after I sent in my Champions haha). But if you once googled “how to counter Goths”, you know how to do it and it really isn’t that difficult.
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Wtf goths havent nothing, Goths only is decent because Huskarls, if you remove it, Will be very low tier civi
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They have a really good Dark Age and their siege is really useful in a lot of cases. And they have the Cavalier which gets the job done in the Cavalry section.
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Uhm…my english isn’t perfect, but dont the 2 mean the same?
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Which is exactly what the Ethiopians can and are doing. And the shotel being cheaper is only now a cost effective counter to karls.
This game doesn’t revolve around who can do what in the imperial age.
And part of the reason why i think Persians should get a discount on their LS in imperial. Besides the Eagle thing.
That’s literally the definition of mediocre… Have you watched too much mad max?
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A discount aint going to do much because they would still get wrecked, unless you’re talking something dumb like 50% off.
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