Make also the maps fair for all players, stop the random generation for maps (one of the core things that this amazing game has IMO) so everybody has the same gold, stone, wood … boring resources
“To make the Game more competitive…”
Its obvious that you are sarcastic but just to point out the difference:
Starting with the food is much different then it would be to have save Sheeps/ Boars, because then the Food still needs to be collected, which is a completely different Game then.
The part about Scouting i adressed multiply times now why its not true that scouting would become irrelevant so no need to do again. Just take a look there is wanted about Scouting:
or other posts above.
Yes, I am.
Go ahead
Save from what? Your opponent can’t steal them or mess with them, how in the world would that be any different than having them secured in your base to begin with? The only difference is it’d make bad spawns the only relevant factor to the resources, which hardly ever happen, and good spawn or not you’ll have it either way.
We already have auto scouting. The game is being pushed towards making proper scouting less important. Scouting will never be irrelevant, but your suggestions make scouts less and less useful.
Maybe we’ll reach the utopia where scouts have so much nothing to do that they’re needed to be given a minigame like they are in AOE3. Let’s go play AOE3 everyone, that’s where we’re being led anyway.
If you want to call it your resources, just make it so it’s all in your base to start with. Then nobody can steal. You can take it at whatever rate you want, and then there’s still the economy planning involved with zero food risk. This is an identical result to what you are pushing and the reason you don’t like it is because it’s ridiculous, it’s boring, and it’s childish.
Sometimes your gold is spawned on the front of your base and it’s impossible to wall, you get castle dropped in early castle age, and you lose. Do you want to do away with that type of unfairness too? Throw the golds and the stone on the back wall, four tiles away from the edge of the map, right along with the boar and the berries, and give yourself a nice fat forward woodline to wall in with. Let’s just solve all the variance since one bit is a problem.
Boars on the front are variance. If you don’t like variance in one category I see no reason why you’d stop there. Let’s just fix the map spawns and make it SC2 while we’re at it? We’ve already got Zerglings, so we’re halfway there. We just need to have nice clean bases and no gas refineries denied by forward probes. Game is better. Yee.
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I really just want to ask you: why do you defend about laming?
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Because there are bonuses in the game that indicate both its existence and its practice within the game, in the celts bonus. There are plenty of things the devs did do with the map creation and variation, in the original release of the game, that they did for fairness.
You don’t spawn too close to resources. You always spawn with a similar set of resources to your opponent. The Neutral resources never spawn too close to an opponent or you, as do Relics. You never spawn at the top, or the bottom, of a hill, and neither player spawns with a highground advantage. These are things that are unmistakably fixed to not happen.
The two things they very specifically did not do: They didn’t make it impossible for the scout to attack, and be attacked, by wildlife. They didn’t give you the sheep to start. They didn’t make it so your sheep were yours to find and your enemy couldn’t take them. They clearly had no problem turning off the attack for scouts for Deer, so to assume they simply forgot to do so for the boar is, at best, a reach.
Within the settings they have specifically set, with the basic requirements for a “fair” map to be drawn, and a game to be set upon, any amount of variance on that map is not only okay to me, it is necessary to me for me to accept as it’s what makes AOE2 different from the rest of the strategy games. That Variance to ensure no game is the same, the tactics always changing, this is core to what AOE 2 is, and should be.
With that in mind, If I had to choose between a stolen boar, and a forward gold on a hill, I’m taking being down a boar as opposed to giving my opponent a long-term map advantage with a pinned resource I need for the rest of the game to survive. So I see this as the first step to reduce the variance I depend on to keep the game interesting and fun to play, because this is far from the worst outcome a bad map and a cheeky opponent can provide you. Surviving variance and making the most of a bad situation is core, the core to AOE2 as it has existed, and changing that is unacceptable in any form in my eyes.
And people lose games to a bad forward gold way more than they ever do to a boar steal, if the above statistics are anywhere near accurate.
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You made the sheeps are the main argument for you, but the problem is with “boars” mainly, and yeah I don’t mind the Celts bonus. The thing is that laming actually depend on luck more than skill, what is the chance to find boar/sheep? What is the chance to not get spotted? It is just a matter of luck, so this is one thing. 2nd thing you say “part of the game”, ok aren’t towers part of the game?! Why did they nerfed them and at last killed the Incas trush? This is part of the game isn’t it?! So being a pary of the game doesn’t mean that it is not able to change, devs removed Celts militia speed and removed many fun drak/early-feudal strats because people were crying that those things are literally Lame and now you say stealing boars and sheeps are fine? Well if the devs kept the Celts drush and Incas for fair game then removing the boar lame should be next. Last but not least reomving the lame completely will never happen, becasue you still can send vill and kill and wall resources or whatever, but the boar/sheep thing is actually a stupid lucky thing and not skill at all, so why someone lose/win a strategy game because of stupid thing like luck ?!
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Yes, we have auto-scout, so might as well also have guaranteed stockpiles of food, in fact, why not add auto-drush, auto-scrush, auto-any build order, or heck why not add auto-play! (sarcasm)
but in all honesty, guaranteed resources would make the meta even more stale than it already tends to be. Especially in team games.
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No, I didn’t. The celt bonus exists. That means, they were either aware of the potential or even used units to steal sheep, and this bonus came as a result of that option. If they didn’t consider it, that bonus wouldn’t exist, yeah? So they knew it was a thing and left it in there.
They took away the ability from scouts to attack deer, yes? That means someone had thought of the possibility of using scouts to kill and deny deer. We agree? Good. Therefore, we must also agree that they chose not to do so with boars. Yes? Good.
Now, they chose to leave laming for both boars and sheep on the table, and we know that because the Celts bonus infers the sheep, and the lack of the restriction on Boar but not Deer infers this for the boar. Still following? Great.
You can have any resource spawn on the front. If they wanted to make any resource easier to defend, they could have. They can clearly decide how far resources are from the TC because that’s tightly controlled, so they can decide these things to be fair (or unfair) and decide what line is good to draw for the variance of the map. Where they draw the line, I stick with, because that’s the amount of variance the devs agreed to be a fair amount, and I happen to agree with them. That’s the whole point
I’m not “just on sheep.”
Nope. It’s a skill. Just like blocking a lame is a skill. Knowing where you should scout for your best chance is the purest form of attained skill, map familiarity and calculated risks.
Yes, they are. They were nerfed because a wide variety of civs were abusing trushes to great success and it was starting to polarize and dominate the meta. This was especially true of the Incan trush, where if you had an Incan opponent you were almost assured a trush against you, and when something becomes meta it tends to get nerfed.
Laming isn’t meta.
Correct. Especially because “lame” is subjective and up to interpretation. Best thing to do is to push back when someone attempts to ask people to nerf the things that are “lame” like how that one player asked for making it much harder to have the scout kill a TC because losing your scout early is too big a deal and it shouldn’t happen, and I simply made the point that if you make TC’s worse at killing scouts, you’ll make scouts better at sniping weak villagers. I’m a full-time “lame” defender like that.
You’re welcome for keeping your game interesting for you.
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No it is not, it is more about luck than skill, it is completely by chance.
Who cares about the stupid meta?! And what is the meta?! If you came up with a new yolo crazy strat and won , then WP! If most people do something then it doesn’t mean it should be right, vice versa. So it was a “part of the game” and it is gone, them same should be the lame.
Again losig/winning because a matter of luck is just a stupid thing, at least the trush that you were crying about is “skill” not sending scout early then "OMG I WON THE LOTTERY AND FOUND A BOAR or TOO BAD! I FOUND NOTHING, GL NEXT!.
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I disagree. Just because it’s not navigating your scout through a Kaizo level doesn’t make it easy. Even if it were, just because it’s easy to do doesn’t mean it takes no skill. I bet you believe your dark age start to be easy, but I know as well as you know that you’ve got it down over hundreds of hours of being housed, losing vills, and excessive accidental sheep murdering. The start to this game is not easy and incorporating anything into it is a skill devised as a result of months, if not years of practice. Winding that down to weighing your options and coming forward with your scout to try to lure a boar near your enemy as “luck” is simply wrong. It might be easy for a skilled player, but that doesn’t mean it’s unskilled.
You do. If you had nothing but franks every day for the rest of your life, you’d want a meta change too.
Towers were oppressive, and it was drowning out other options. They moved away from towers to open up different avenues of play for these civs, even if at first it was a nerf just to get them out of the way for a bit and to let people breathe.
I’m sorry you feel this way. We disagree. You aren’t going to convince me by explaining to me how when a player comes forward and sees a boar, he was lucky to find it. He’d be lucky to come forward and see any information of value to confirm your location. Whether or not he finds your boar is variance, and variance is everything.
Here’s a poll you can disagree with. Have fun.
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You literally wrote nothing but keep repeating and walking with the same circle over and over againn without any good argument. And you said that I care about the meta, but no I don’t and I said many times that the current meta is boring with every game play every time, trush was good, Celts drush was good, Arambai was good, and all of them at least weren’t a LUCK, keep saying that lame is not luck is just stupid because it is literally luck.
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the game should be balanced for the maps they make us play on. that means scouts should not be able to attack boars
laming might be okay on a well-designed map where people who know what they’re doing (i.e not microsoft) script the maps so that boars/sheep spawn far away from enemies and put actual resources on the map so that stealing res doesn’t mean you have to make 5 extra farms to catch up. but the ranked map pool does not have well-designed maps. instead it has a bunch of shallow land-only maps where laming decides entire games
why wait 30 minutes for a teamgame after beginners alt+f4 every map that has well-rounded economic options just to play a land-only map where the game is decided at 1:45 by a lamer?
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To help settle this please vote here
Its not decided by a laming. You adapt and overcome. Are you uneffected no, but its not a garrentee loss.
What does it say about my personality
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you do not adapt and overcome on land-only maps
position-picking means you only make 1 unit. whoever makes more of that unit wins. the end.
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That’s why I always play games on explored.
Like what? (char limit)
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You can switch mid game to a different unit. It is done frequently in high mid and upper low elo. If it was as easy as who makes the most units shouldnt krombit warriors be the defacto winner as you can make them in less than 6 seconds easily out massing. Why not start making spears in feudal and continue you could easily out mass. Why should 7 pike fear an onager there is more of them. The point being you have counter units. Use them. It is difficult to come back but not even close to impossible. You can see pro games where mbl loses after laming. Its not as be all end all as some think
This is clearly unacceptable. You are not adding to the discussion and infact are pushing others away by trying to attack character and not the substance. At least the others even if we disagree are trying to use the facts to change how others feel even if it seems like both sides are using a single vill to take down a fortified stone wall. Come back with productive arguments.
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