Town Centers WITHOUT SETTLEMENT (SUGGESTION)

Age of Mythology: Retold Discussion
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THE_IDEA_OF_THIS_PROPOSAL_IS_TO_PLEASE_EVERYBODY
Please, read before responding*
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Settlement system is part of AoM and removing it wouldn´t be good. But some people would be worried because this system limits player decisions too much but… What if we maintain the settlement system while we allow players to build TCs in certain circumstances?

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1-Builging TCs without settlement with a big penalty
The purpose of this proposal is not to completely limit the player with the settlement system and is mainly oriented towards CASUAL gameplay.

  • A free-for-all game where your base is destroyed and you flee to an island where there are no previous settlements.
  • A 2vs2 game where your base is destroyed but your ally is very strong, so you flee and settle behind them where there are no TCs.
  • Casual games against AI where players want to settle where there are no settlements (roleplaying)
  • Rare situations (less than 10%) where in a competitive game, the location of a settlement is very inadequate, so it is more advantageous to place a TC without settlement with PENALTIES

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2-TOWN CENTER without settlement could have those PENALTIES:

  • Less 50% attack and less 50% health (expensive builging easy to destroy)
  • -X% to comerce (Thus it would avoid positioning it in strategic locations to take advantage of trade).
  • Unable to produce peasants if you would already have more than 1 or 2 TCs (This would prevent the use of this TC for exploiting villager creation in the late game)
  • (Maybe) Fortified Town Center update would not affect these town centers (without previous settlement)

The first purpose of this TC would be to produce villagers in moments of extreme emergency or necessity. It would rarely be viable in competitive play*

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-3 How could this TC VISUALLY_DIFFERENCIATE itself from normal TCs in previous settlements?

I thought that if you built a Town Center without a previous settlement, the Town Center would look the same but without walls (even small walls) as shown in the images below

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6 Likes
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I honestly don’t like the idea. I think the TC system in AoM is good as it is. A town center as a center of a town instead of a building you spread around your town as villager factories. It limits the amount of villagers you can produce at once (and the positions where to produce them) and it limits where you found new cities. Yes it is restricitve BUT restrictions like that can (and do in AoM) ADD tactical depth to a game and i personally really appreciate it.

I think your attempt to reach the best from both worlds does actually the opposit. It takes the best from both worlds away from the game. The explained restictions from your post would prevent people to use them as villager spam factories (but i guess that’s the reason people in AoE2 for example like this direction) AND it would take away from the strategic significance of settlement points and also from the idea of town centers as centers of the town. Yes, your suggested limitations would lower this points but not kill it. It sounds overall more or less like a half baked midway solution.

I personally think it’s a either this or that situation. And we have THIS in AoE so i like to have THAT in AoM. Specifically because i like how AoM handles this. Your idea would kill that for me and i don’t think people who like the AoE attempt more would love it too. So in my eyes nobody would win in this situation. Let the game be the game it is.

But i can see where you came from so i don’t want to hate on your brainstorming. Just my opinion in this case. For me it would just kill the AoM gameplay.

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My idea would be practically useless in competitive. It would practically only serve to give you more freedom to found cities on the map but it would only be exercised at very rare times"

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Oh sorry i don’t clarified that. I don’t talk about competitive games at all. I talk about generel base game mechanics that also apply to casual games. I don’t see this to have a purpose in casual games too. Specifically if we talk about things like ‘‘i have to think strategic where the settlements are in the map to plan further expansions but without super meta efficience in mind’’.

To answer directly to your first points of purpose:

Yes, this is a situation we casual AoE players know. But here in AoM the settlements restrict the player so he has limited positions to chose from to recover. It adds strategic depth for that and also prevent from endless recover situations. When you opponents control near to every settlement (through own TCs or through patrolling soldiers) it’s better to bring an end to the game.

This isolating strategy is pain for both, casual and competitive games and it’s strange immersive-wise to have cities in cities. But having free settlements behind or close to your ally is nothing the current system can’t give you. It depents on the map spawn and can force to find different solutions in different matches. That’s awesome in my opinion.

Especially the fact that you need to find spots to settle (settlements) makes the ‘‘roleplaying’’ for me better in this case. It’s a ‘‘game mechanic meets immersion’’ situation where you need to find a good spot to settle down. I personally love this.

Yes, as i said, i’m not speaking from a competitive perspective at all. But i guess even here is the ‘‘settlement restriction’’ something that forces the player to think around instead of coming to the point where you take mathematic penalties into account because the spawn is not optimal. You take penalties in a bad spawn situation either way.

As a casual player i love game mechanics that are clear and give you strategic decision making without knowing the best meta of the game. I love to build immersive cities and start immersive sieges agains enemy settlements and stuff. But i need clear game mechanics where i can work with so i do’n start to play ‘‘a complete stupid different game that makes absolutely no sense gameplay wise’’. I think the settlement system from AoM is one of those mechanics. I hope you can understand my point a little bit better now.

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One of the things I hate most about AoE1 (AoE2 RoR) is that Town Centres are barely more expensive then the other drop of buildings.
You can just spam them. They don’t even cost Stone, just Wood.
Starting in Bronze Age you basically only build Town Centres as drop of buildings and your villager production explodes.

In AoE2 the drop off buildings are cheaper and smaller while the TC costs more Wood and since AoC also Stone. This makes them a lot harder to spam and people will usually not build that many in Castle Age.
But additional TC are rarely build in the centre of a new “settlement” they are more often just build relatively close to the first one to boost villager production in the main base.

AoE3 is similar to AoE2 just that drop of buildings don’t exist so they are just villager factories.

AoE4 is pretty much the same as AoE2 too.

Age of Mythology gives Town Centres a whole new meaning. They are a place in the world. Not just a villager factory.

Settlements give a place on the map meaning. Something that doesn’t exist as much in other AoE games.
If the resources are gone most of the map is just flat nothingness. No meaning or value is attached to it.
AoE2 is the worse in that regard because there is only resources, land, water, hills and cliffs.
AoE1 has Ruins, but they are rarely important, AoE3 has a lot of smaller thing like native settlements and trade routes while AoE4 has secret sites.
None of them are even remotely as important as Settlements.

As a map creator I love Settlements. I really wish they where a feature in all AoE games.
They allow me to shape the map.
They allow me to make different parts more or less important.
They allow me to place settlements in the places of real world cities.
They are a permanent factor (unless you use triggers to remove or place them) unlike most features in most AoE games.

You can be like “this is an important place so I put a gold mine here” in the AoE games but once the mine is gone no one cares about the place.
The only way you can get something that feels similarly important is by using triggers. Like placing a respawning Gold mine, or placing a capturable flag/building that trickles resources. But nothing has the same elegance and as the Settlements in AoM.

The fact that they are the only source of Favour for Atlantians makes them even more interesting in some scenarios.

But I am not against having a “minor” Town Centre that is a lot worse and can be places anywhere.

  • 50% less attack and HP
  • 50% increase training time for villagers
  • Not technologies and no Age Up
  • Provide no population

That’s what I would do. That would make it very obviously less valuable then a real TC.

I don’t think that has a chance to happen in AoMR though. The game will release in a little over2 months, no time to add such a big game changing feature.

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Roleplaying is that if you arrive to a beach and do you want to found your city there, you can. Even if you want to take advantage from settlements too.

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That’s your roleplay. Not mine :smiley:

But yes, even in this roleplay situation the settlers need to find a good spot near the beach where starting a settlement that can grow to a city is possible. I personally think the settlement system catches this idea very good. The magic begins where roleplay and game mechanics work hand in hand. Otherwise you could ague that AoM needs space ships because in my roleplay the atlanteans build space ships to conquer the world hehe :smiley:

Absolutely this. Love this sentence.

As a map creator myself i absolutely agree on this.

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Exactly, roleplaying is to do what you want. If in your rol you want to take advantage to previous settlement, its ok.

If someone wants to arrive at a completely uninhabited land and colonize it from scratch, that’s their roleplaying too.

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I think that you should can to chose the place for at least ONE Town Center. The rest of the gameplay is fine the settlement system.

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It’s not like you could’nt build buildings on a small not so rich beach. You just can’t build a city center (if there’s no settlement place near by). You want to build a little fishing village on this small coast? absolutely possible without a big town center. And on the other hand if you find a beach or island that is a good place to found a city and there is no settlement position, it’s bad map design, not bad game mechanic design.

But in the parameters the game mechanics give you. Otherwise space ships :wink:
If you want to play the game completly different because it doesn’t fits you roleplay you either chose a different game or start modding it to your purpose.

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Giving players exactly 1 Town Centre without limitations is actually a pretty good idea.

This would keep the value of the Settlements but give you flexibility in edge cases. And it gives a little bonus population.

This one TC should only be available in the late game though.

It wouldn’t even need any other penalty.

Thanks!

It’s 3 sentences though.

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Could be a tech in some kind, yes.

Haha yes true. It should be ‘‘Love this statement’’ :smiley:

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Maybe as a Wonder age tech? This could be nice, as long as it’s very late game and only one TC.

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They shouldn’t allow for players to make a bunch of Town Centers anywhere even if they are weaker and less efficient then ones built on a settlement that is too big of a change to a key part of the game. Settlement system forces players to have to go out and fight for Town Centers which is a great system.

If they ever give players the ability to build Town Center that doesn’t require a settlement just make it be a Capital (1 build limit) that is bigger, stronger (health and attack) and more expensive (double the cost) then a normal Town Center and can only be built starting in Mythical Age.

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I specifically said in the point “2 PENALTIES” that those TCs wouldn´t produce peasants if you have more than 1 or 1 TCs. It is probably some too specific but the point is clear.

As I said, I think that at least you should be able to build 1 TC without settlement. And I LIKE SETTLEMENT SYSTEM but the game should leave you to choose at least one position.

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I am so happy

1 Like
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Friends, don’t worry about the balance. Every change produces an imbalance, but all imbalances can be balanced. Having the freedom to place Town Centers while maintaining the settlement system is something very good for the game

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Interesting decision to add “Village Centres”.

I do thing they are a little too good though since they produce villagers at the same cost and speed as a Town Centre.
The main disadvantage is no population and lower HP.

You get the same economic benefits of a Town Centre for the same price.

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Yes. This needs to be changed in my opinion. They should produce villagers way slower (or more expensive) or something like that. Now we have the villager factories in AoM :confused:

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Of all the competitive matches I’ve seen, not even once have I seen this new building being used (by people who know it exists). Relax please