TURKISH STATES FOR AOE 4 ? ( OTTOMAN )

Turkish States and Communities in the Middle Ages

Avars
It is the first Turkish state to besiege Istanbul twice.
It is the first Turkish state to accept Christianity.
They were assimilated by immigrating to Europe.

Turgish
Baga Talkan was the first Turkish ruler to print money in his name.
By fighting the Umayyads, they prevented the spread of Islam to Central Asia.

Kyrgyzs
It is the first Turkish state to come under Mongolian rule.
The longest epic “Manas” belongs to this state.

Cores
In the Talas War, they defeated China by taking sides with the Abbasids.
They were effective in the establishment of the Karakhanid State.

Khazars
They got rich using the fur route.
Tolerance is common.
Their armies are made up of mercenaries.

Oghuzs
It is the most crowded size of Turkish tribes.
Over time, they established the Great Seljuk State and the Ottoman Empire.

Turks have an important place in history, in my opinion.

I wrote about the medieval Turkish states above.

When we look at the developments made by the Turkish states in the Middle Ages, it seems that they can offer a quite different and beautiful civilization gameplay for age of empires 4.

I think there should be a Turkish state in the game. What is your opinion?

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I think they already come up with other 4 civs they want in a game. So nothing we say will change that coz they are already in development probably or close to finished. But thye might add turks in a future if they see it as a great idea and they are not in a game already.
For me I dont really care what civs are in a game but I hope they stick with this idea that each should have very unique playstyle. So far I like what I see specially with mongols. So I hope they stick with that

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yeah, they need to sell the game first. i am a Turk myself but if I develope a game like that, first i would be sure to enough people buy this game, after that i would release whatever they like. But i hope in the end we can play as many as possible civilizations like in Age of Empires 2. (If they want to be a classic again)

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I hope greeks(byzantine) and turkish(ottoman) come together. Because they complete the story together. Each is incomplete without the other. Same can be said about Iberians and Mesoamericans.
Though it is also arguable that Ottomans and Colonial Age are rather late for the timeline.

Maybe these factions can be added as dlc in future.

For the limited civ pool of base game I think Arabs is a better choice from middle east (among turks, arabs, persians, berbers) to fill the spot of a generic medieval era islamic camel civ.

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I would like to see Arabs and Iranians as well but first you need to understand Turks wont rule only in middle east in history. They didn’t built only one empire. If we talking about Empires as the game title says, there is some of Turkic Empires: Great Hun Empire, Western Hun Empire, European Hun Empire, White Hun Empire (Hephthalites in Byzantine sources), Avar Empire, Göktürk Khanate, Khazar Khanate, Delhi Sultanate (built by Turkic Dynasty) Timurid Empire (Turkic-Mongol), Mughal Empire (Turkic-Mongol), Great Seljuk Empire, Ottoman Empire. And this is just empires. There is hundred of big states bigger than some other empires. As the author of this topic mentioned some, so many sub-ethnic groups in our race. I would like if they add civilizations as DLC of a Race, not just like empires, or not just like sub-ethnic groups as @logikanana says. If they add they need to add us just as “Turks” for my opinion.

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I think it is gonna be added after launch. Don’t know which one they will choose but definitely, crucial.

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Turks would be interesting to have they can start as nomads like mongols but later branch out to more settled empires.

I think the Turks will not be in the original game.

Maybe DCL.

Missing representation from South and North America. African nation.

Developers want diversity

At the MEDIEVAL era, the the Seljuks, Ottomans and Turks were part of the Saracen Caliphate.
At 1920 AD, the turks appeared from the name of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. That is at the end of Aoe 3.

I don’t want to go off topic too much, but when we look at the ethnic origin of the word turkish, we can see that it dates back to ancient times, only the empires they lived in were different.

You mean Iran as “Persians”? That would be nice and also I think it is one of the most important middle eastern civilization of medieval era. They were the most sophisticated and educated civilization with a lot of wealth. I think it might be on release.

About the Huns, this civ represents Turko-Mongol people. So it will be added later in the game as we already have the Mongols. (And they will be same as the Mongols = mobile).

Ottoman Empire is the most likely civilization that can be added as an add-on or DLC. They were largely known as superb with gunpowder units like the best cannons during their reign etc.

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Saracens are not a race not even a state, just a word called by Christians, it is like Crusaders, Muslims didn’t call themselves Saracen at that time. You need to learn more about history. Turks are not just a nation, it is also a race with so many sub-ethnic groups. You can search for it. Search for “Turkic Dynasties and Countries” Atatürk is ancestor and the founder of Republic of Turkey. First known Turkic state is Great Hun Empire (220 BC). Was there any other state before, we don’t know. But Turks lived so many years for more than you know.

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Turks should definitely be in the game, however, there is one reason I think it’s right that they’re not in the release.
A Medieval Turkish faction immediately poses the question - nomadic or sedentary?
Now, I think the answer to this is “a mix of both”. But to implement a mix, first the devs need lots of feedback and experience with these two very distinct flavours of civ, how they play, what’s the meta, what do people like about them, their strengths and weaknesses…
So I think it’s better they don’t rush to make a Turkish civ.
Personally, I do think it’s a bit of a pity they’re (probably) not here because if they were, we could have a better Mongols campaign (not confirmed but I think the devs will be very eager to make interesting campaign scenarios with such a radically different civ) with Delhi, China, Turks, Rus’, and Arabs in the game.

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Yeah like you said it’s a mix of both, so they can do nomadic at first ages and sedentary after Middle Ages. Maybe they can add civilizations as a Challenge Pass like in AoE 3.But i hope they add much more civilizations than AoE 3. Because we know we all gonna play AoE 4 until AoE 5 release. So i hope we don’t wait too long as we did. BUT if there is more civilizations, we can play at least for another 16 or more years just in case :smiley:

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any Turkish state must be in the game

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this makes absolute ZERO sense to me … Clearly Turks and Persians have nothing to do with arabs. Turks have never been a camel oriented civ (in History no Turkish/Turkic army used Camels in warfare only Ottoman Turks used camels in trade bussiness)
Turks , Persians , Arabs are nothing in common but religion.
Turks have more common with Mongols as they were far cousins.
11…

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Greeks and Persians is an older romance imo. Tho I do like the rival civ combo idea.

Seljuks seem to be the most reasonable option given that the game limits itself to civs that were present from the beginning to end of its time period.

We could have a plan like the Rus for the civ; y’know how the devs show the Rus identity with each age? Early norse influences, the slav durzhina knight stuff in age 2, mongol inspired cav archer age 3, and later original Rus Streltsy (iirc) age 4. Something like that could be done for the turkish state.

Labelling it the Seljuks for the sake of the fact that they spent the bulk of this period as that entity, there could be the Oghuz origins referenced via a pastoral sort of eco bonus in the dark age - better at hunting boars or smth. Then for unique units we got the infamous Turkish light cavalry and horse archers to draw from - that can be translated as an age 2 horseman replacement and an age 3 cavalry archer type of unit. The age 2 unit could be a horseman that has a 1.25 attack rate and can attack while moving. The cav archer can be like the Rus horse archer, but with 4 range, and actually has the standard x2 vs light melee infantry. Age 4 they can get the GREAT BOMBARD as a siege weapon because they have to (fite me), and it could just be a bombard that reloads in 15 sec but hits 50% harder with 15 base range on it.

Unique techs could go off the various weapons and military tools inspired by the turks. Iirc the curved sword design in the middle east was a turkic influence and replaced the previous roman inspired straight sword. The major advantage of curved swords was that a mounted unit could more easily strike at foot soldiers so a tech could give the age 2 unique unit bonus damage vs all non-heavy infantry, melee and ranged alike. Another thing the turks gave people was the thumb ring - this let archers pull the string back alot further that their chest resulting in harder hitting arrows - sounds like an easy second unique tech for +2 damage and on all archers. Lastly, waxing arrows is a thing people did. Weird as that sounds it makes a huge difference vs riveted mail - so a third unique tech could give their horse archer a small (6 - 8) anti heavy bonus. On the last one I’m not actually sure if its a turk excusive, but if you gotta give it to someone, give it to the Mongols. Since we cant, I guess the turks can have it.

Net sum, a standard eco late with a boar/hunt early kick and a military based mobility with around a more well rounded horseman backbone plus an all purpose horse archer support.

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Great post, this attack-while-moving Seljuk horseman sounds very fitting to this defining raiding culture.

But I’m not sure about labeling the civ Seljuks. First, the Ottoman Empire is the only multicivilizational civ (Seljuks was not). This alone makes the Ottoman labeling most compelling.

Second, Seljuks did not have the infamous Great Bombards. Ottomans turned it into something real on the battlefield.

Third, AoE4 ends around 1600 (varies by civ), the historical Ottoman dynasty starts in 1299 (source: Google / Wiki).

Better hunting makes plenty of sense. The Oghuz origins should have something about controlling wolves on map, to reflect the mythical alliance of Turks with wolves.

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Seljuks did not have the infamous Great Bombards.

Iirc, after the Seljuks got blown up in the crusades, they split into Beyliks and one of those ended up founding the Ottoman empire. I suggested the great bombard to hint at their future as the biggest boys in the medieval times, similar to how the French get the cannon as a nod to how they quickly and effectively they developed field artillery.

AoE4 ends around 1600

Huh, I actually thought it only went up to the early 13 century at most. Well, in that case we can totes have the ottomans as a big boy imperial civ since the empire was at its strongest in the 16th century. Though since the Ottomans came from the post crusaded wreckages of the Seljuks, I’m not sure how well the Oghuz turkic origins can be emphasized for them - they had been a sedentary people for a while at that point and stood out as an early riser in gunpowder usage.

Maybe we could do Timurids instead? They were more turko-mongol-persian, but the way they rolled was alot closer to how the actual old turks went about doing things - raiding, mobile armies, (partially) pastoral economy. Totally a thematic and regional rep of central asia, if not exactly turkic.

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