Turtle Ships are likely overpriced for what they do. They are still unseen and unused even after THREE SPECIAL TURTLE BUFFS after AoC
Buff 0. No Castle required
Buff 1. -10% Wood and Gold cost
Buff 2. Panokseon = +15% speed
Buff 3. -15% Wood cost
Poll: Why do we hardly ever see TS in serious games?
- No, Turtle Ships are seen very often.
- They are too costly in Wood.
- They are too costly in Gold.
- They are too slow and easily evaded.
- They are too difficult to fully upgrade.
- Their range cripples them, also disallowing any attack on shores.
The situation with TS makes it clear that a Buff 4 is absolutely necessary to balance this unit. Which is a shame considering also the Korean themes and history.
The necessary Buff 4. could be one of the following
- Cost dropped by a further -20W, -20G (to 160W 160G) OR
- Panokseon speed buff +25% (TS base speed only 0.9 vs Galleon 1.43, hence making Panokseon a “Mahouts” of the sea is necessary) OR
- TS +1 range (probably even +2)
I prefer Option 1 as it is the safest, and can have no negative consequences to the metagame.
Again, biased poll.
And why do you let people choose all answers? So that it may seem more people vote for the buffs? When in reality 1 people vote for all answers (except for the one stating that TS are fine)? I voted 1 answer, and I was the second one to vote, despite that, all answers have received a vote.
That why such posts will never be taken seriously.
no, they’re situational and that is fine.
Their only big problem is that the elite upgrade is too costy. Usually you use turtle ships in galleon fights, since if you put some in front of your galleons to tank enemy galleon fires it can help pretty fine. But this way you only create a few of them and this doesn’t justify the expenisve elite upgrade.
I’d make two changes:
-Panokseon movement speed boost increased to 20% (so it will be a more viable option to use only turtle ships)
-Elite upgrade cost decreased by 200 of each resources (so it will actually be worth to upgrade them in such situations described above)
wow its more expensive than war galley and galleon upgrade combined
I think turtles could use a slight base speed buff, other than that they are really strong units. Their main drawback is their lack of mobility, which is really important in water maps.
In my opinion, they feel a bit clunky to use in general: high cost, low speed and low range, but high HP and armor.
I would buff them to be less clunky overall, maybe with a little speed buff similar to the recent teutonic knight buff
The percentage bars mean how many people agree with that proposed buff. You have to see the percentage bars individually, and compare them with the “no buffs are needed bar”.
However, I agree with you in the sense the poll may seem “biased”, maybe because of the tone of the initial statement:
If the OP started in a more modereate way, such as “I think Turtle Ships are overpriced for what they do… what do you think about them?”, you would have perceived the poll as a bit less biased.
I agree with 1. and 2. and Elite upgrade should be cheaper
There are 6 answers, if I voted for one, someone voted for all the others, otherwise at least 1 bar should be at 0%.
What it bothers me is that this poll doesn’t try to search for people opinion, he just care to prove his point, that is to support as much buff as he can.
True, polls are not reliable with such low data gathered.
Also when it comes to balancing it doesn’t matter what the majority thinks. It matters what people with good knowledge about the game think.
That’s not because the majority doesn’t matter (obviously), but because the majority is just not able to judge how good or bad a change would be.
It is not biased. From the results of the poll it is clear that only 16% of people as of now think that TS are balanced.
Multiple options must be allowed, as each of the options’ percentages are independent of the others’.
i.e. The percentages add up to more than 100%
We have to wait before making conclussions: a poll like this published in a forum like this may have biased answers, because there is a risk that koreans players being attratcted by the topic title.
To avoid this “selection bias”, the poll should be made in a more complex way…
I use a lot of surveys because of my job. This poll has only one core specific question (with several options), and is published in one specific thread, and also have few voter by the moment.
It is better to design longer, general questionnaires, and ask for specific topics in them.
That option ask if the voter think TS are seen often, not if they are balanced…
They can be balanced but niche. Aso they only could be seen usually in watermaps because are expensive and only are produced after castle age.
Turtle ships are okay. Dont touch anything. There needs to be a niche unit like that.
And also, the poll is very biased. you gave the option “no they are seen very often” instead of giving “turtle ships are fine as they are”, just so you can win your poll
I’ve actually seen turtle ships used every time the pros take Koreans on bog islands, they aim for making Turtle ships. So I don’t think they are that underused.
can i get a link to this please? i’d love to see them in action.
I’ve seen Daut use them a couple of times on stream, but he didn’t post it to YT unfortunately. I managed to find a Viper game tho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYYhhwymRJM
turtleships + towers putting MBL in a chokehold. love it.
Turtle Ships are fine. Spirit of the Law’s Korean Overview video goes into detail about the strengths of the Turtle Ship. Turtle Ships are best seen as a Galley replacement. Turtle Ships are the most population efficient naval unit in the game, meaning you need less of them to reach an efficient critical mass than other naval units, meaning you have more population space for land army or Villagers. Turtle Ships are much slower to create than Galleys, but Turtle Ships reach their critical mass of units faster than Galleys, meaning an army of Turtle Ships ends up being faster to build and reinforce than Galleys despite Turtle Ships having a higher individual creation time. And an army of Turtle Ships will lose their damage potential slower than an army of Galleys, making Turtle Ships more resistant to the “snowball effect” than Galleys. Turtle Ships are also simply effective against every other naval ship due to high damage and high bonus armor which almost completely negates Galley and Fire Ship bonus damage.
Turtle Ships are held back by their high initial costs, and low speed and range which limits their effectiveness as a coastal raiding unit. But they’re hard to stop on water once they get going. Although the Korean player will eventually want to mix in Galleys and Cannon Galleons for coastal raids despite Turtle Ships being a Galley replacement.
I have been playing with Turtle Ship in great detail lately.
The unit has been changed, I don’t know how, but it seem to me they no longer do area damage.
There is a clear difference in the units quality between age2/ DE