Unit/Civilization Balance Changes:

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
42

Sorry for you.I think some country balance so bad.
To India,Sweden and Chinese.

1:India now the Agra Fortress is good in the game.The India can choose Rush or defense.Sending deck and free to get villager let their Economics good.At least not bad!Sepoy although -10 HP,but now it’s still op!And it units are comprehensive.Sepoy,Skirmisher,Cavalry and Ranged Cavalry.Good War elephant!!I don’t say,it’s tears!

2:Sweden have so good Musketeer in age 3 and age 4.Nearly Skirmisher,but don’t worry the Cavalry!And have good melee!(19damage).I think they Musketeer Armor is 0.3,please let it become 0.2.And Melee damage become 18

3:China.It’s my mainly country.I only tell your rhythm is bad!Maybe you will say:Chinese 16 settlers go to age2,send 700 Gold and wood go to 3.It’s FF good!I will ask.other can’t do this?Why Chinese will FF?
Because the age 2 is weak.No Musketeer and Good Cavalry civilization harass enemy ability is weak.I I agree Chinese have 7 Stepper Riders.But,Could 7 Stepper Riders be beat 3 Hussars??And if 7 Stepper Rider died,How to create it?Creating standard army?3 Chukonus using harass???
Old han army’s 3 Chukonus and 3 QiangPikemans.Cheap 6%-8% than European Crossbow and Pikeman.But,Hitpoint and Damage.I don’t want to say more in age2!
Of course,we can tell Chinese Economics.Do you think its good?
Someone will say Summer Palace=4settlers,Tower=8settlers.Good!I only say.You have money,but no army support you get it!Weakly army,but you give Procrastination Economics.It’s so Uncomfortable
And Chinese age3 Good???Chinese in age3 weakly is in Changdao!!Give you a chance.Let European Musketeer being replaced by Changdao.What do you think?
Someone think I am nonsense!!
Okey.Looking the Official match!Chinese player Paid more micro operation and have some low result.I don’t think it’s fair!It’s a clear fact that China is hard to play and not strong in Age Empire 3 DE

China I give you some suggestions.You only just need to do a little and I’m satisfied
First:Giving Chinese 15 population at hometown.Not 10
Second:Giving Chinese 400 Wood.Not 300 Wood
Third:Giving Chinese 300 Food,Not 200 Food.
4th:Giving Chinese -10% cost for settler
5th:strengthen QiangPikeman and Keshik.No say Keshik DPM high.1.5ROF and base Damage only 8=3.0ROF and damage =16.Do you think Good?And it’s have weakly Hitpoint!Keshik become 10 damage and 120 Hitpoint.QiangPikeman become 8 Damage!
6th:Every village is created.You free to give they a sheep!
7th:Chinese tower wonder free give:200Wood,400Wood,600Wood,800Wood!in age 2,3,4,5
8th:Chinese at start giving 7 settlers!
9th:Chinese Settler Card giving 2 settlers in hometown.Not 1.This ensures at least three farmers.
10th:Changdao Base Hitpoint and Damage become 140HP and 16 Damage

I only need you do one Choose.I am satisfy.Chinese player satisfy.Thanks very much

1 Like
43

how about giving china a missile or tank or jet fighter, or just let china always win when a game start?
i think there is no difference between your suggestions and mine.

3 Likes
44

My mean is do one.Thanks.Not all!!

45

Do you look my:I only need you do one Choose.I am satisfy.Chinese player satisfy.Thanks very much?
Please look it

46

I don’t want to get more than one suggestion.Chinese hardly playing is famous.Thanks.And it’s my suggestion.Giving other looking.If you have good idea,you can say.Don’t start nationalism.I am not do this!

47

Some thoughts on China in 1vs1 supremacy:

China does feel very weak in Age 2. Its obvious this civ is designed to do well in Age 3, because China gets only 2 villagers from their home city shipment and 0 villagers in Age 2. China has villagers “build into their Wonder”. What I mean by that is, the Summer Palace and Porcelain tower produce ressources without the need for villagers. However, in Age 2 this makes China vulnerable, as I have explained below.

In the current meta China usually builds a Trading Post in Age I to gather exp for 2 shipments in Age 2 right away.

However, this means they need to gather wood with 3-4 villagers in Age I, which slows down their Age up massively, and if you do not find a treasure for wood/food in time, you will usually idle your town center for a short, but significant time. The fact that they have to gather wood with 3-4 villagers and idle their TC snowballs into the mid and lategame.

I would suggest the following: Add more food at the start or reduce the cost of the village.

China weakness in Age 2:
Since China has less settlers than other civilisations, they are a lot weaker and susceptible to early aggression. The Summer palace is producing armies for free, which is effectively a few more settlers. However, this effect only comes as a powerspike once the army is build, whereas every other civ will have a constant buildup of more units. If China faces early aggression, they are extremely vulnerable during the period where they do not have their additional banner army.

To make China Age 2 stronger, there could be multiple different solutions. As I suggested above, a buff to their starting food crates would already help them alot with their Age 2 timing. But I also want to suggest something else:

The Chinese flamethrower is almost never used. Because it costs 170 wood + 170 gold and an enormous 4 population. This inflates their wood cost even more.

Buff Chinese flamethrowers. Add a Shipment of 2 Flamethrowers in Age 2 like Leather cannons.

Here are some suggestions for the Flamethrower:

  • Decrease their cost to 150 wood, 150 coin and 3 population
  • Increase speed from 4.25 to 4.50
  • Increase their range

Both of the range and/or speed increase could be added via the veteran upgrade in Age III. Similar to how Abus guns get additional range with upgrades. Or similar to how Caroleans gain additional range with upgrades.

To put this in perspective, a Curassier costs 150 food + 150 gold and only 3 population. The Swedeish Leather canon costs 300 food and 100 coin and only 3 population. The Leather cannon is a strong and very effective Shipment against early aggression.

The flamethrowers have currently no place in the game as anti-infantry because they are too expensive have low range and you can only send 1 single Flamethrower in Age 2, unlike Leather cannons. No one is going to build a Castle and Flamethrowers in Age 2 against early aggression just to build flamethrowers. Just like Sweden doesn’t build an Artillery foundry. They simply ship their 2 Leather cannons against aggression. And no one is building Flamethrowers in Age 3 and later because of their low range and because of their insane wood and coin cost. Skirmishers and potentially Iron Flails serve as anti-infantry. The Flamethrower has currently no place in the game. This needs to be changed.

Merry Christmas :slight_smile:

49

there is no need to make china age2 stronger, that will make china undefeatable. all china need is 100 more food at start, that’s enough. they are too slow to age up to 2 in current patch.
and there is a flamethrower build. age up to 2 by porcelain tower and age up to 3 by summer palace.during the aging to 3, assign your vils to collect wood and build a castle.upon aging up you will get a 1000 food shipment from summer palace. collect those food and send Iron Cap Princes’ Army, also upgrade the flamethrowers, that would be a strong timing.

1 Like
50

I agree 100 more food at the start would be alright. I am not asking for more.

However I do not agree with your argument about flamethrowers. You are saying a strong timing push exists, and I believe you. However, my point is I would like this unit to be viable apart from being just a timing push or an all-in.

The 170 wood cost, 170 coin cost is too much. But the 4 population cost, the 4.25 speed and low range is the nail in the coffin. Once Age III is unlocked and all civilsations have access to most of their units and artillery, low range units like flamethrowers are easily picked off. And at that point most civilisations can simply resarch 10% speed on infantry, to give all their infantry minimum 4.40 speed.

The flamethrower should get more range from its veteran upgrade and maybe from the following guard upgrade and have its pop cost and ressource cost slightly lowered to be viable. This will take some testing of course, but at this point this unit is almost Skull-Knight-tier in terms of usefulness. (That means almost useless of course).

1 Like
51

I agree your suggestion!Thanks very much!

52

Haudenosaune is really underrated here I think.
Its not that different from EP, apart from the tribal market place.

53

Could the officer can change it?

54

Let me compile a small list of ideas how to balance the civs.

OP civs:
Japan:
Crazy Idea:
Remove Ashigaru.
Replace it with Spear (Yari) Ashigaru (Age 2) and Arquebus Ashigaru (Age 3)
Yumi and the new Yari unit have no Guard/Imperial upgrades.
Less crazy Idea:
Make Shrines a bit worse.

Sweden:
Torps can only collect one resource at once. Just right click what ever you want them to collect. But add techs that increase range.

Underpowered civs:
Russia:
Units trained in blockhouses don’t get e debuff anymore.

China:
Villages spawn one goat when build. Maybe the village upgrade spawns more.

Natives:
Crazy idea:
Build limit from community plaza to 2.
Dancers per plaza to max 10.
Increase efficiency of dances by 50%.
Both plazas may not be able to perform the same ceremony.
Now you have more choices what ceremonies to do because you can do a second one while doing the must have one.

Other idea:
Native support cards cost less. Card to reduce costs gets removed.
Maybe add one or more ceremonies that help allies (maybe with a HC card.) Like 25-50% or the effect applies to allies too.

55

That would make Russia instantly overpowered. Russia is fine as it is, has a strong rush + followup mapcontrol with Block Houses. Lategame Russia is great at trading units because their units are cheap but efficient. And their settlers are 10 food less aswell.

This is an interesting idea. However China is extremely vulnerable in the 2nd Age and the best build for them is TP, chop wood and build a village. This is not always possible without having the TC idle, which hurts them immensly. Their Age up is very slow. China needs a small buff, something like 100 extra wood or 100 extra food so they don’t suffer from being rushed.

Their unit shipments are also a little underhwelming, since their units are weaker and cheaper, but they don’t get more units. See 8 CKN vs 8 Crossbows, but Crossbows are stronger.

Flamethrowers are too expensive in both ressources and 4 pop. They should cost 3 pop and less ressources.

But most importantly, China lacks a 2 Flamethrower shipment in Age 2. Compare them to Sweden, Sweden gets a 2 Leather cannon shipment which is worth 600 food and 200 wood, this is absurd for Age 2. Keep in mind unit shipments are usually worth less ressources compared to ressources crates, since the value of shipping units also means you don’t have to train them, you don’t need any unit production building and you don’t have to collect crates.

Following this trend, China should have a 2 Flamethrower shipment, which is 340 wood and 340 gold in value. Still less than a 700 ressource shipment. And Sweden should not have an 800 ressource shipment in the form of 2 Leather cannons. At the very least, the 2 Leather cannon shipment should cost ressources to send. For example 200 coin. The later game Flamethrower shipments for China should be adjusted aswell.

56

Most annoying civ to play against is Japan by far. Main reason is the ease at which thay can shrine the entire map and so deny critical resources forcing the other player to hit a strong timing age 2 or early age 3 or simply lose because hunts run out. This could be mitigated by removing the ability of the Japanese explorers to build shrines, forcing them to use villagers much like Sweden. This would make Japan raidable and also add a element of risk for the Japan player should they wish to shrine the opponents hunts.

Just my 2 cents.

2 Likes
57

Limiting the number of animals per shrine to 2 would prevent them from locking all huntables.
Also they would get less resources from shrines making them less overpowered.

1 Like
58

Chinese is an timing country.But,If enemy SF.Chinese FF I think it’s not Choice.So,give they 100F/W.or give they a sheep.I think it’s good!

1 Like
59

What am I reading here, remove Ashigaru from Japanese? really?

1 Like
60

i mean this pool really show that most people have ZERO clue on treaty balancing.

Spain does not belong below 3, and certainly aren’t within 1 bracket of faction like aztec and Lakota.

also who honestly think japan is as good as ports and france? no Japan is not anywhere close to those factions.

61

The game should never be balanced around treaty primarily. 1vs1 Supremacy is the definitive RTS gamemode. Every civilisation must be competitive first and foremost in 1vs1.

The latest patch completely missed buffs and adjustments for China even though its been widely known to be one of the worst civs. Since DE it has been nerfed heavily via reduction of British consulate, which also affects India and India is still vastly more powerful. Every civilisation has received the best possible crate start in every game. Swedens crates just got adjusted to be the same as China: 200 food, 300 wood. However due to the strength of the torp, Sweden still gets to age faster than China and has much stronger economy, ontop of being able to build a TP. China doesn’t get 3 villagers. They get only 2 villagers in Age I unlike most other civs. Sweden gets 3 villagers aswell, ontop of having torp gathering for them. Some people call Sweden “too slow” yet its still vastly superiour to China in every way.

The current competitive build for China includes a village and a TP, meaning China has to gather up to 90 wood in Age I. (You could also go for a 2nd village, its 10 wood difference, but the TP build is superiour to having 1 more villager.) They also have 1 Goat, which isn’t equal to 100 food due to decay and because it takes longer to gather than a food crate.

The result: China starts age 2 at around 3:15-3:25 minutes into the game (only by consuming their goat, otherwise it would be even slower). This is way too late and China is unplayable in 1vs1 competitive because of this. France, easily among the strongest civilisations in the game with no real bad matchups, gets to Age at around 2:17 with their 12/10 and reaches Age 2 by around 3:45, ready to send 3 Hussars before China even hits Age 2. The amount of tempo and control over the game is absurd and its one of the reasons why China is unplayable against starts like these. This build has gotten so overpowered that we have seen an overproportionate amount of France picks and France mirror matches.
This is not the only example of course. All other civs are so much faster than China, they get to dicate the pace of the game before China even gets to Age 2.

You have seen zero China play in the recent tournament, and no one is going to be playing China in the next big tournament (unless to counter greedy Portugal, but you could just pick Portugal yourself) because there is simply no way to play China in this current situation. Its going to be France, Portugal, Germany, etc the known top tier civs which all got even more consistent with fixed crate starts.

3 Likes
62

okay, cool story. doesn’t really adresse at all what i talked about tho.