Tomorrow this topic will blow with the civ bonuses from the new civs
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Its called, Marketing strat 
There was leak of balance change which had been taken down within 5 minutes. Me and several others luckily managed to have a sneak peak.
I honestly think the berry bonus can be removed completely now. Berry is a lot slower source of food and reducing the bonus 25% ā 15% basically did very little. Their win rater dropped a bit, 56% + ā 53%+ but TG changed almost nothing.
Agreed 100%.
No need. Just see how that goes. I bet they will have the highest pick rate and will maintain a 51%+ win rate both in 1v1 and TG in open Arabia style maps.
They didnāt have 20% HP for their scout line that time either. Also meta changed a lot over years. No one thought cheaper castle is a great bonus back then. And lastly, Franks enjoyed being the #1 dominant civ in the game for over 3-5 years now. Let them back a bit and have someone else (probably Teutons in TG, 1v1 hard to tell) take the spot.
That can work too. Back the bonus to original 25% from 15%.
Absolutely not. Paladins HP can never ever be more than 192. At best they get Bloodlines and cav HP +10 in Imperial age.
Heck no.
Right now? I can remember some back in January 2020.
Still wonāt be anywhere close to top 10 if that is the new effect of āMadrasahā. Iām not asking for this anyway.
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Pff just change chivalry effect, in what world is healthy to spam 40% faster 192HP paladins with eco bonus mmm, is just stupid
If you do so, youāll just make cumans even more predictable and easy to counter than now.
The new bonus isnāt OP. In the dark age you still have no bonus. In the feudal age, you usually build 2 of that buildings, and a third later on. Sure 300w isnāt bad, but there are civs that saves more and more early, and donāt need that wood as much as cumans do.
Lastly, this bonus finally gives them a bit of flexibility and unpredictability. You can use the extra wood to build your second TC, to build your feudal SW, or to add stables for your good scouts, or simply save it for farms.
Right now instead cumans are forced into building their second TC in feudal and trying to survive until it pays off.
If you apply the discount to the TC, you just force them even more on that strategy.
4 Likes
true. They even dont save wood per barrack
I suggested a similar buff for cumans in one thread (discount on military buildings) but i think this bonus fits them better
Yeah they could have included the barracks, but have the bonus start in feudal age.
If you are going for a scout or and archer rush you would still need to build the barracks in the dark age, and so pay the full price.
Very well described.
Or the discount is pretty small. -50 wood. Maybe even SW excluded for Feudal rams.
I am curious, what is your elo?
I already explained that the problem isnāt the discount itself. Itās that itās easy to exploit for cumans. Fine, give them that bonus. But only if they remove the second TC and SW in feudal.
They can always tweak the values to avoid the quick walling issue with an archery range.
But i disagree about removing the siege workshop and TC. Cumans were designed as a feudal civ without deffenses (not towers in beta, only strong pallisades), a feudal eco bonus (TC), faster cavalry. The siege workshop was a plus, useful against trushes and to break early deffenses that feudal units cant. Then, in castle, they had fadter knights and OP steppe lancers with a broken UT. So they could try to stay in feudal or a fast castle build order to spam broken lancers or kipchaks.
But their broken bonuses didnt synergize, so when thet were nerfed cumans went to D tier. Their faster cavalry bonus now equals a free husbandry in castle age, steppe lancers lost their appeal, steppe husbandry now is considered useless despite affecting steppe lancers now, and siege workshop is a meme strat even if now they can have capped ram in castle. And the second TC is slower ti build.
If you commit to one strategy, you dont have resources or time for other. In open maps, their eco was too slow to rely on second TC. In closed maps, enemy can hold the position until imperial, when cumans are weak.
Only in teamgames they shined and not because of the Mercenaried tech, but because of the support of team mates that covered cuman weaknesses. (I pulled a castle capped ram victory with a goth ally recently in arena)
The new bonus just make all of their potential strategies more feasible. . Now they are D tier. Could the new bonus could make them S tier? If cuman becames broken (specially after steppe lancer buff) just tweak the discount values and let them stay in B tier.
Attack > Melee Armor
Not that simple
But generally yes for core units. But for a differnt reason than most will think:
Attack snowballs better than armor.
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Except armor is almost always taken first. Even in melee matchups
No, pros almost always get attack first in melee vs melee combats.
Exception is only if itās like knights vs pikes, then the pike player will prefer the armour.
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Not what I see from them.
donāt forget that Lithuanians have the possibility in 1v1s to get +6 knights in Castle Age, which can easily happen if the Lith player gets map control from his scout opening.
Yeah, but itās a huge investment. You usually do that investment to get the best paladins in the game. With that now out of the picture liths just continue to fall of at all stages of the game.
Itās not really possible to get the +6 knights AND use them at the same time to maintain or evensnowball the lead. Getting the relics is a long-term investment.
Basically this. Cumans are just all sorts of messed upā¦
It wouldnāt even be hard to make them a solid civ without giving them broken crap.
Remove the Cavalry Speed bonus, unlock husbandry in tech tree.
Unlock Heavy Camel in tech tree.
Remove Siege Workshop discount, remove Siege Workshop in Feudal Age
Give Free Capped Ram in Castle Age.
Remove Steppe Husbandry and give them something to buff their Kipchaks. Or buff Camels & Light Cav.
Slightly reduce the building time of second Feudal TC.
Revert the broken -100W cost on military buildings.
Done. Now you have a fairly versatile and solid civ.
But I donāt agree with that, the 2nd TC is just a broken design, either completely OP or complete trash.
And TBH I like it more with being trash.
Why they need to add that bs? Everybody knows how tightly aoe2 is balanced, the 2nd tc is just potentially too strong eco bonus, just vaporising all other eco bonusses in the game. How you even approach to ābalanceā that?
So, instead of adding one bonus (maybe broken but can be fixed), you propose to rework the civ?