Many time but I still request for 3 thing and ask vote for it.
1: delete frame delay shoot = plum archer + reduce 5w and 5g for rattan archer
2: remove the paper money to other tech
3: need small bonus economy start game maybe + 100w or reveal 8 sheep from start.
It need for Viet they still not balances civil.
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Most people will vote the 2, and still it would be a late buff where viets perform right.
Regarding the point 3, it is not needed. They already start knowing the enemy position so you can invest more time scouting your base.
Ah, and fpr ypur interest, vietnamese UT chattras is going to receive a huge buff next patch (see the PUP thread)
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Thank you. But point 1 more importan than 2 point other. Rattan too expensive. And they are archer bow not crossbow delay frame slower than plum it unreal. Frame delay need =
Thie first point is a bit nore controversial
Rattans are hard to mass but perform very well against everything when massed even with the frame delay.
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Paper money it’s a good tech even in 1v1. 500 g it’s a lot. 2 and a half trebs. In post imp that’s a lot.
With the chatras Buff, viets are gonna be okey. Yeah, their early game is worst than mayans or brits, but their late game is far superior
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How about this: Vietnamese start the game with a few pre-built segments of palisade in the direction of their opponents. Maybe 20 tiles worth, total.
That would be a nice early-game bonus that doesn’t have much impact in the rest of the game.
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Vietnamese don’t need a Buff, instead Nerf severely the civs that can do what vietnamese can do but better by a massive margin (Mayans and Britons).
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Barely comprehensible post, but we all agree that paper money should be replaced with something else.
Hopefully, soon…
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I also think the chattras buff would be good for viets even in 1v1.
For non elite battle elephants, the tech provides 40% of base HP and cost almost 3 elephants. So it pays for itself (HP wise) after 6 elephants but only requires 40 seconds instead of 72 seconds for 3 elephants (54 with free conscription after imperial age)…
This could be good for quick defenses in certain circunstances even with only one stable, forcing the enemy to go pikes or monks
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Maybe, but delay frame shoot are realy unbalance and need fix it. And ìf get small bonus start game I thing reduce 5g is ok
Viets have actually been a solid Civ during RBW5. In the semifinals have beaten mayans of I’m not mistaken, meaning that they have their role and they aren’t that terrible even in the early game.
As for paper money, just increase the gold obtained from 500g to 800g. That’s 1:1 conversion of food/wood into gold, it’s something that nobody have, not even saracens on their best day.
In post imp, when you need to sell a ton of wood for a bit of gold, it’s an incredible bonus. It the gold value of 4 trebs.
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I think this is due to the enpire wars format that skips dark age. So mayans early bonuses are not so important.
Gold for 4 trebs PER PLAYER 
With trade, paper money is not so needed as in 1v1 but is a good rescue tool.
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on top of EW format hurting mayans, viet are if anything more geared to fighting archer civs, than any of the others, and if anything arher civs are in the minority
but thats half the point… you knw where the enemy base is, if you know where 8 sheep are, you either scout using those sheep and push deer even faster, or you go over and lame the opponent, or even if you arent laming at least seeing where his res is. its not a huge buff depending on whether you simply see or control the 8 sheep… but still something very unique
They are for sure an anti archer civ, but they do decent against other civs too. For example, in the final, they beat sicilians, which aren’t really an archer civ.
Sorry, your suggestion sounds fun but it may be broken.
If you start knowing where your initial sheep are and where the enemy is, you would know the circle area where the enemy sheep are because they are spawn at same distance from TC for all players.
At the start of the match, the vietnamese player would only need to pick their 4 closer sheep with the scout and run to enemy base to steal the other further enemy sheeps almost instantly. It would be a garranted 4 sheep lame in every match
Then, the scout would be able to scout resources a bit and return to the own base for boar scouting and deer pushing.
So at the end, vietnamese would start with 12 sheeps and the enemy with 4, both players could lure deer (this may be needed for the lamed player so he cannot scout the viets base) and even pro players could lame a boar by the way… This is a huge eco lead.
With the current vietamese bonus, if the viet player runs to lame sheep direcly, he gambles not being able to find their sheeps (because he doesnt know the distance from enemy TC to sheep) and then not being able to scout the own resoueces on time. Thus, current vietnamese bonus equals one deer of advantage and maybe a couple of sheeps. But not 12 vs 4 sheeps + scouting advantage
And all of this in 1v1. In TG the vietnamese allied players would steal sheep from all players.
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Lierry lost with vietnamese against sicilians in the finals
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Yeah? I couldn’t see the end of that match, I just saw viets when they were ahead.
Still, viets had they had their share of victories.
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Were elephants used in any match?
I suspect they werent because 1v1 hyperaggressive format
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Yes Viper teched into eles vs mbl khmer on enclosed late into the game. But mbl was dead anyways and I doubt viper would have done that if the game was neck to neck.
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In general Vietnamese don’t need buffs.
Well, replacing Paper Money with something useful would be nice, obviously. But not really necessary.
The only thing I want for Vietnamese: 5 base range on regular rattan archers. They are not CA, they are not fast enough to compensate lesser range.
Currently regular rattan archer is useless: very expensive, but still weak to siege and skirmishers. There is no case where you would prefer rattan archers over crossbow+skirmisher mix. Elite rattan archers are good, but why transition from crossbows into elite rattans.
So my concern here is not to buff rattans per se, but to make it actually useful on Arabia. Because currently transition into rattans is really awkward.
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