Saying that a unit of a civ is underused or too situational is one thing. Saying that a civ needs indiscriminately a buff is another.
I don’t agree with the second statement regarding the viets, but I may agree with the first regarding the BE.
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I just asked if they were used because I would like to hypothesize what it would have happened if chattras gave 100 HP to them during RBWV
I don’t think that 100HP chatras will change much.
You need a castle for it, and BE already have a ton of HP.
Yeah, they will be able to better soak up arrows, but viets already do that with their archers. Against cav they have halbs, which are better. They may be used as a ram, but they are pretty expensive.
Viper vs MbL, g1I believe. Was an enclosed, khmer vs Vietnamese.
Elephants came as a super late game transition, and Viper was already ahead. Still, a good movement that made Mbl gg
Ok, i have seen the end of the match and counted less than 5 elephants… fully upgraded though… He even was researching paper money before the GG
So elephants were useful only to proclaim dominance and convice MBL to resign…
Well yes and no. I think MbL saw the elephants and thought “no way I can Still hold”. A super late transition, but game ending if you ask me
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Vietnamese’s “problem” is that they don’t really have a castle age power spike combined with the fact their economic bonus is only “ok”. If you wanted to address the power spike part one idea could be making their free conscription kick in in castle age thus allowing them to mass archers faster. I haven’t run the numbers though and accept this potentially could make them OP
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Maybe I’m oversimplifying, but it sounds like that would just make 3 archery ranges work as quickly as 4 normally would. So save 175 wood in Castle Age? Doesn’t seem OP at first glance.
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Conscription combined with elephants: training elephants in 16 seconds in castle age.
Sounds like a lot of fun and still can be countered.
The problem is for other types of units:
- Knights in 20 seconds!
- Cavalry archers (with extra HP) in 23 seconds!
- Mangonel in 31 seconds!
- Monks in 34 seconds!
So, instead of moving free conscription to castle age, I would make the bonus “conscription can be researched in castle age”. It is a cheap tech even for castle age. However, the needs of a castle makes me partially against this change. I like to go imp without castles and having conscription for free. But it should be tested.
Vietnamese extra HP for archers is an interesting “power spike” in castle age. Their archers cannot be easily erased by mangonels. In feudal, the bonus is only useful against enemy archers. The thing they need is a tool against enemy knights especially from civs with knight bonuses, against which Vietnamese has problems fighting.
edit: although maybe the buff to infantry in castle age is good enough? They are going buffed against meso civs (better infantry) and against non-halberdier civs (better elephants). A lot of these civs are picked a lot. I would expect for the changes before sugestting more buffs.
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Well just think of aztecs military production was nerfed from 15 to 10% because it was deemed op. Yes that’s feudal age but 33% faster in castle age is just nuts. That’s essentially Briton, Goths, Huns and Celts team bonus combined. That’s why too strong. Free conscription in imp is already a decent bonus. Besides I honestly think we have enough already of that available one age earlier thing: cuman tc, burgundian eco upgrades, bohemians chemistry. It’s a pretty weird mechanic and that shouldn’t get out of hands imo.
Kinda agree but I don’t think think it’s too bad for them. You can make xbow and monks as any other civs while having good eco to boom behind. Also pike switch geels very natural here as you will probably play archers and halb in imp. Also if the map is super open you can play cav archers in castle age vs knights. I know it sounds weird but I’ve started doing this when they got their eco buff and imo it works pretty well. Not only have you more hp on ca but also the eco bonus is great for that. You save a lot of wood in early castle age and high wood cost is one of the reasons why it’s difficult to open ca.
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How many cav archers do you mske against knights in open maps?
(i lose against them in 4 out 5 matches)
I’ve done viet cav archers a few times and it’s purely a question of mass. If you can get to about 25-30 you are in a good spot. That period at the start of castle age though leaves you super at risk to raids, you pretty much have to raid them and hope they don’t respond with a counter attack. Not really sure how viable it is at higher ELOs (I am ~1100)
Well most of the time you open 3 ranges and produce constantly from these. The idea is to have more ca than your opponent has knights and slowly micro down knights with hit and run. Requires more or less constant micro and you can’t comfortably boom behind as mo3of your vils are on gold and wood to keep up production.
With Vietnamese however what I tend to do is have 2 ranges and play more defensive and maybe get some monks to not let your opponent push too deep into your base. With all that wood savings until earlly castle age it’s totally possible to have ca from ranges and add tcs behind. But it depends on how opponent plays and map ofc.
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I think vietnamese need stone buff in early stage. With stone buff transition into rattan archers can be a little bit early and keep vietnamese in game.
++ Gold miners produce stone slowly
On the other hand paper money pretty useless in game. In 1v1 imperial age, investing that much resource for paper money is not worth; in team games 500 gold can be helpfull but players can easly close the gap with trade. I think exchanging paper money and chatras can be better.
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They already have a discount on mining upgrades.
They could receive free hoardings to helo their castles staying alive. But thwy already have. A free castle imperial tech (conscription) so it would be a little redundant bonus.
Chattras should star as a castle tech in case of peolonged castle ages. Paper money wont change castle age game a lot because gold is theoretically easy to gather in castle age. It only would help in low gold maps for reaching imp faster.
In fact new buffed chattras (100hp instead of 50hp) is more useful incastle age than in imperial despite not having elite battle elephant yet. There is no halberdiers in castle age and that extra HO is much better against pikemen than halberdiers.
They still put some extra will to get enough food for stone upgrade and they have to pust some vils to mine stone while opponet dont have to ( if they dont go uu)
They cant use elephants in castle age because monks are too strong againts castle age armies which have small number; therefore, elephant upgraders pretty useless but extra 500 gold can be very helpfull despite relatively faster gold mining in castle age.( Fast imperail, sending less villager to gold and using them in other works etc)
Lol lets go and make a Vietnamese Men-at Arms-Towers-Archers soo strong lol
And maybe is time to stop begging Vietnamese buffs? They are far stronger civ than ones that truly need buffs (Koreans, Burmese, Spanish, Incas).
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In early castle age, yes. But not so much in late castle age, like after commiting all in 1TC.
lol. maa tower archer ? how many villagers you will start ? 10 ?
you cant effort elephants with 1 tc