Vietnamese need more increase about military, and chan paper money

doubt thats happening, and they dont need pikes

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Paper money coukd create additionaly a gold tickle equivalent to 1 relic for the Vietnamese (not Team)

Would be a great bonus for 1v1 lategame. I think that’s all they need to become A tier.

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Well, if you really want to buff it, you could considerably decrease the time, like 10s. But I don’t say no to 500g even in 1v1 when the market have terribile prices.

It’s better than a lot of other UU if you consider that more gold is always helpful.

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That’s true. i’d never make it 10 seconds because that’s far too fast, but 30-45 seems a bit better.

Replying to OP: I think Vietnamese are in a pretty good spot now in regards to civ balance and civ playstyle/uniqueness, and they shouldn’t be touched at all in that regard. Only thing that could be changed or made more convenient is the Paper Money unique tech (which I see people are discussing)

Why. :grey_question:

Aaand.

Nope, that’s not gonna happen.

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Ckn is superior to everything, but it is extremely cheap. I wouldn’t say that there is a huge difference with the rattans to justify such a cost difference.

The comparison I have proposed somewhere else is with the italian genoese crossbowman. Ckns have:

  • similar damage output vs cavalry
  • much lower training time
  • much lower cost

As result ckns are preferable even vs cavalry (which should be job of the GC). Much better if cavalry is paired with some siege/skirms. But probably you can just answer that GC needs a massive buff (cheaper and faster TT than a ckn since it is a counter unit muck worse vs everything but cavalry)

Rattans are more difficult to compare, but still I do not see a difference with ckn justifying the cost. I would say that ckn is better, if not they are close. So no need for such a big difference. That is why I would reduce rattan cost.

You can’t just make meaningless comparisons like those. You need to take into account the full tech tree of said civs.

For example, both Vietnamese and Italians have access to gunpowder land units, while the chinese do not. Chinese have no answer to onagers (aside from light cavalry
), even their own onagers are bad cause they don’t have siege engineers and their monks don’t have redemption. GC is still the superior unit against cavalry nonetheless, which is it’s intended role. However italians aren’t supposed to be relying on GC alone, while for the chinese it is a much more important unit for the civ as a whole, by design.

Also rattan is very good also for it’s intended role too. Chu ko nu is a more diverse unit, also by design. And the civ has a stronger dependence on it than viets have on rattan.

And lastly, the fact why I quoted you in the first place was because that statement made no sense. An archer UU can cost more than chu ko nu if it’s stats and the civ it is wielded by, warrants so.

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The only change i want for them is a chattras buff.

Currently, their elephants feel underwhelming sometimes

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Clearly you have to compare civs, but also units. Ckn is far superior to everything, so if it is allowed such a low price, it makes sense that other archer UUs have a similar cost despite being overall weaker.

Ckn is clearly better than GC, but this is probably because GC is underpowered (so I am not saying ckn needs a nerf, to be clear).

My whole point was to say that, since we were talking about archer UU cost, and ckn is so good, a cost reduction for rattans would make a lot of sense.

Maybe I said that with the wrong words, especially if someone understood I want a ckn nerf. Sorry for that :slight_smile:

I will try to explain myself better: if that if a top civ in the game (chinese are in the top 3 probably) has such a cheap and powerful UU, we can justify the cost reduction of rattans, which people are asking.

The comparison with GC is less relevant, since GC and Italians are miles behind ckn and China. Probably this just a need for a massive GC buff which is off topic. I was using the example of the ckn vs GC to show that we can accept the cost reduction of archer UUs.

I mean, I guess we can agree that rattans are expensive, and if devs would slightly reduce the cost, even leaving it higher than ckn but still cheaper than now, that would not be broken at all. Even if vietmamese are left as they are is more or less fine imo, since there are other balance priorities (turks in the first place imo, but a lot of discussions are dealing with italians, koreans, and Portuguese)


Elephants have already a lot of HP and push their HP does not change a lot. So clearly useless even if you reduce the upgrade cost (still need a castle) or the amount of HP they get.

The elephants they get from Malay and Khmer are much stronger because you buff their weekness (movement speed and costs) and that without castle and upgrade costs.

Elephants of the Vietnamese needs another buff. The civ is in general quite strong but elephants not really useful

The other elephant weakness besides cost and movement is the training time. Not counting monks and halberdiers, which are a very hard counter for them.

That said, i would indeed give them more HP to hold one more hit against halberdiers.

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Ive suggested 80 or 100 HP. I want to see more BE than just from Khmer, which has the best elephants. Burmese has the second best, then Vietnamese, then Malay. If resources are equal than Malay tie Khmer.

Now what about also giving the Vietnamese Imperial Age unique tech, a more accurate name which would be “Monetary Reform“?

Paper money sounds like a funny name, don’t know what’s wrong with it?

Economic upgrade no cost wood, it not make different for Vietnamese. Need some more for army, reduce cost for rattan, or something, change paper money


It doesn’t make any changes but Vietnamese was picked in tournaments couple times. And imagine buffing one of the best unique unit in the game

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:sweat: it not make different, Vietnamese still weak after all bonus :rofl::rofl:. Because unique unit so bad, while standard unit in weak line unit

Cost? the same gold cost for arbalest. 25Wfor 6 pierce armor, +5 hp, faster speed and more damage. Rattan is a top5 unique unit

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