If we will nerf walls and keeps, they would became completely useless.
,…
It is easy to use Siege weapons
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yeah im mixed feelings about them. i think buildings in general dont go down fast enough to siege, when we consider how quickly/easily it is to repair/replenish them
but at the same time i dont want the game to go back to the days when the game revolved purely around siege
we have had a tiny buff to ram dmg vs walls, and keeps have been nerfed, possibly not enough, like they still build too quickly imo. but the patch is so new maybe we see how things go, to work out where exactly the nerfs/buffs need to #### ########### (censorship is whack in its head)
The point is, defensive strats will ever be safer and easier, here, in Apex Legends, in LoL, in every game. This is not something inherent to this game.
And the 2v2 and 1v1, it’s normal. In team games you have to adapt a bit the strategy, is part of the team game experience.
For example, I played a team game that me and my mate were attacking hard a guy in feudal, we were pushing him so so hard, and the other guy just got to castle age and spammed knights, so we had to back and defend. It’s part of the team game experience.
Yep thanks, I know that. As I said, this IS inherent to this game. Take Starcraft 2, it’s much much faster. Even in Aoe 3, if you wanted to boom it was a real risk, you didn’t have walls, etc… Here I don’t feel the weakness.
It’s not by chance if the vast majority of players boom or go fast Age 3 then 4, quickly invest in keeps and walls, etc. I’m just telling, this is getting boring.
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RTS generally tend towards a more defensive playstyle with time passing as players learn how to defend. However, we have seen multiple nerfs to basically every viable offensive strategy in this game so devs have actively pushed the meta towards a more defensive playstyle too.
I’d really encourage people to listen whenever there’s complaints about the game being to defensive strategy wise because the vast majority of players who could potentially leave wont post in a forum. They will first think that turtling is fun because it does not require many APM and it’s the strategy where they can truly shine. But after some games they will get a feeling that it is quite repetitive. They will try out another game on gamepass or somewhere else, maybe think about starting AoE4 again here and there and eventually leave the game for good.
I am not entitled to talk for the likes of pro players but it would highly surprise me if they were happy with the current meta. Those players love strategies and they have the APM to really use the ceiling potential to its maximum. Currently there’s lots of free money for those RTS veterans but I highly doubt they would play the game if there was less money to win.
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I had post week ago and we talked a lot on it. You can read it, its Why I left or something.
People here are stubborn and like the game how it is. Can’t blame them tho, they wanna chill. They don’t want to micro their units. Most people prefer sim city game for 30 minutes then fight for a bit. I am watching the tourneys right now, trying to like the game but maybe isn’t for me. Long clunky battles, walls, unstoppable booming, same units.
Last days I was thinking what is actually more diverse aoe2 or aoe4 in terms of gameplay. Yeah economic part is hands down better in aoe4 but military part. Even if aoe2 have even less diversity from units, they have different stats. Cumans horses run faster, cheap buildings. Tatars have bonus while fighting from high ground, magyars or berbers cheaper horses this three make totally different gameplay wise in terms of combat. I feel like aoe 2 have more strategic depth and the fights are more interesting since one mangonel hit can switch the things really fast.
Also Idk if its me but I feel units die easier and move faster in aoe 2 compared to aoe4. Maybe I am wrong, don’t know yet, just I feel like watching redbul tournaments fights feels more “epic” in aoe2.
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And that’s why when everyone was claiming to nerf tower rush I was enjoying it…
I can’t understand that offensive strategies got nerfed. Siege is another thing. I really don’t like the siege fest before the nerfs.
Months ago everyone just spammed mangonels and springalds, and games were so so so tedious. Now mango spam is less effective since they don’t perform as well as before against non ranged units.
@Sp4rt4n0wNs you said defensive strategies, not boom… I can’t consider boom a purely defensive strategy since your only purpose is booming to overwhelm your enemy by a higher eco or higher techs. By the way, defending has his good and bad things. It’s easier to kill the enemy army and rebuild your own army, but it’s also easier to get distracted and got some knights or some MAA in your wood lines and lose 10 villagers.
I adviced in gold/plat league people don’t usually can do the multitask well, and when engaging the enemy base I ever split 4-5 MAA or a few knights to just put them in wood lines or other resources, and it’s very effective.
When best strategy for aggression is tower rush you know that something is wrong
And who say is the best? Is way more risky than other early aggression, and usually if goes wrong exposes you near gg.
So best? No.
we should reduce near-base resources by 30-40% in map design so people have to move out to mid map for more resources
One of the main nuances between aoe4 and aoe2 is the wall play. Most of the battles are fought at the walls in aoe4.
Once an army breaks through the walls, theres very little that can stop them from just raiding around your base.
Unlike in aoe2 where bases are usually walled off by houses and military/eco buildings.
Aoe4 also has more fun wallplay in general, archers on top of the walls and siege towers sneaking units on top of the walls is so much different than aoe2 style knights vs crossbows with 1 mangonel trailing and castle vs castle plays…
Instead of nerfing walls in aoe4 which really shine as the big nuance to aoe2, consider wall hp decay per century and reducing near-base resource abundance so players have to move to midfield for more res like in sc
We must do an analysis with data not personal bias.
A barracks has 1500 hp and takes 30 seconds but a 15 wooden palisade takes 12 seconds and has the same amount of hp (1500)
A keep has 5000 hp and takes 180 seconds but a 45 stone palisade takes 60 seconds and has 2x3500, totaling 7000 hp
There is the problem, please developers balance both the Hp and the time to produce walls and palisades
You can produce units by using your pallisades and walls? No, so your analysis is incomplete.
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I’m analyzing the time it takes to create a barracks, please don’t make me laugh
I’ve never been a supporter of tower rushes but defended it because it was one of the only very viable early game strategy. Siege also were too strong, yes but imo devs should focus on making actual units stronger against buildings. That way we will neither see a siege fest nor defensive turtle meta. Just let actual units be able to crack something down and make siege a support unit being more effective at what they were designed for than actual units. It’s really not that difficult.
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I have shown that they have a lot of Hp, you have to find a balance, (as was done with the towers)
As seen in this clip, entering the enemy base has the risk of being trapped, and the rival has their buildings nearby but instead you have to bring your units from your base, the defender has an advantage
1 ram does 400 dmg feudal every 5 seconds
1 treb castle age does 550 dmg every 12 seconds
Maybe siege workshop can have upgrades to damage like in aoe2?
Otherwise 2 rams can take out a 3500 hp wall in 25 seconds
Which if you do this while attacking a different section of wall elsewhere gives a decent amount of reaction time to the defense but not too much!
more than 12 horsemen take 30 seconds to destroy a section of the palisade
The attack time (on torch) is 2 seconds, so the damage is halved from 13 to 6.5 per second which is his dps
It is estimated that 11 horsemen take 21 seconds to destroy a section of the palisade!!
No need to nerf the Walls and Keeps. They’re already capable of being destroyed quickly (i.e., So many siege weapons taking them out at once).
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21 seconds is just enough time for the defense to react and travel the walking distance to get to the wall in time?
And thats without a ram…
How much time do you think would be ideal?
There are 11 horsemen, take into account the resources, there are 1320 resources in horsemen versus 15 in wood from the palisade, you understand!
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