The Retold pictures are out, and we are grateful and impressed by the visual fidelity and high-definition models. Since the game is receiving the ‘Retold’ treatment, I believe it would be a perfect opportunity for the developers to create a different visual appearance for some of the mythical units.
Some of the more obvious choices requiring visual updates are the Hydras and Scyllas. They appear too dinosaur-like and deviate from the depictions in actual mythology. The Battle Boar/Gullinbursti is another clear candidate for careful visual updating. I believe the Scarabs and the Petsuchos could also benefit from upgrades. Personally, I think incorporating more Egyptian influences into the Scarabs’ cosmetics would be beneficial. Regarding the Petsuchos, there was disappointment with their smaller model size.
The same sentiment applies to the Jormund elvers and the Fenris broods. Though, to be fair, I think the Fenris broods are visually bigger than the originals. I believe most mythical units should be large, powerful, and intimidating. When storytellers narrate tales of these mythical creatures, our imagination envisions them as larger than life. Let’s do them justice and make them visually appealing by increasing their size.
How about you? What are some of the mythical units that need to be worked on? Post pictures or examples for the developers so that they will know what these mythical monsters should look like in-game.
I will post some examples or photos later, but these are the obvious choices so far.
Hydras
Scyllas
Gullinbursti / Battle Boar (Not shown in the Retold photos but something to consider)
Scarabs
Petsuchos
Jormund elvers
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I don’t agree.
They are more then big enough. They are clearly bigger then Anubites which are clearly bigger then human units.
It’s stupid when they are too big because then their stats don’t reflect their size anymore.
If they are 10 times the size of a human unit you don’t want them to lose a fight against 5 of them.
Why?
They are totally fine.
They are supposed to grow heads and not start with many heads.
You request changes for units that we haven’t even seen yet???
Modern day nile crocs averaged at about 15 ft. Some grow even larger like about 21+ft. The Petsuchos, which is a mythical unit I might add, is barely touching 10+ ft in length.
The hydras and the scyllas look like modern depictions of dinosaurs. They looked vastly different in vases and sculptures. Again, if the definition of Retold is to retell the entire game from a different perspective then why not take advantage of that?
The hydra, in ancient art, looked more serpentine, snake-like, and not walking on four limbs.
The scylla, on the other hand, needs an even bigger change imo. She is described as having a body of a woman but her lower torso sprung 6 dog like heads and a fish-like tail. I don’t know about you but the “real” Scylla would look more terrifying and visually impressive than a Nessy.
It’s also a wishlist thread since the finished product isnt out yet. So yes. I am requesting some of the units we haven’t seen on Retold to be changed because of their older iterations. I would prefer to ask for changes based on the given details from the photo and the original game before it is too late. Not that it matters since they can still make the necessary changes before and after the game is out through bigger patches anyway.
“If they are 10 times the size of a human unit you don’t want them to lose a fight against 5 of them.”
It’s the not the size of the dog in the fight, but it is the size of the fight in a dog.
And come on. Don’t underestimate the folks from myths. Some of them have literal plot armor.
But anyway, even if they are the size of a normal crocodile, they shoot damn lasers!
I am not a fan of oversized units.
Not sure why people think they are small. In the one screenshot we have they look relatively big to me. They are standing next to Anubites and Scorpion Man which are both clearly bigger then human units too.
Yes, and?
Mythological creatures were often depicted differently by different people. There is no correct or wrong way to display them.
Also the current designs are already an iconic part of AoM.
The hydras in the collective imagination, in games, literature, etc., are conceptualized as a dinosaur (but with multiple heads). Similarly, dragons are conceptualized as dinosaurs (but with wings)
@Trimyth1699 although at one point I do agree with you. The design of hydras is perceived as somewhat simple; they haven’t improved them like other mythical units that have been reworked with more details
I don’t expect the developers to get every intricate detail to its precise measurement and accuracy but at least show the fans that you actually cared and tried.
Just because it’s “iconic” doesnt mean it was favored and appreciated by many and surely doesnt protect it from being changed. Most of the folks I’ve spoken to are not fans of the dino versions of the hydras and scyllas. Some things can be changed for the better. And yes I get it. Visuals are subjective in the end.
@Tapiseiro ancient Greek vases depict them without legs. But even these depictions that you posted look better than what we currently have.
Mummy- shrink it to be the size of a human
Scarab- replace it. Its not a real myth anyway
Scylla/hydra- make it like the myths instead of Nessie
Jormundgand elver- make it bigger, or replace it
first of all i want to thank you personally very much for making another, maybe more serious topic on that matter @Trimyth1699 i appreciate this very much and am happy you seem to think similary like i do.
what i personally don’t understand is, that some members of our community come with “thats not lore accurate” and “this doesn’t fit this civ/unit” but are totally fine with how, in my opinion especially the hydra (and yes ofc also scylla…) is portrayed wrongly (well for the most part) in this game. i love AoM and i loved hydra as a kid, but even i understand how the old mechanic grew on so many ppl here, i still think it doesn’t portray the real vibe of this creature.
with vibe i mean the following:
more serpant like heads and head-movement
starts with many heads and after losing health losing them
regrow mechanic (with health regeneration mechanic)
poison - where is the poison?
(i am okay with legs some portray hydra with legs some don’t i think both is fine i think this is really a minor thing)
scyalla: is a similar topic but also a more drastic one. as a kid i really liked scylla cause it reminded me of a plesiosaur. but the scylla from the myths really is totally different. (there is even alpha footage of that in the old game)
about other myth creatures and just regarding those you mentioned:
manticore: some get nitpicky cause its a persian myth unit as it seems, and i understand that. but manticore really didn’t feel that scary ingame as it should be. even tho the general model of that creature wasn’t that bad with the humanoid face (how it should be), the lion and scorpian part. i think it should be improved. (really think this model suffered very much from the old graphics) its attack maybe is not the most fitting for the unit itself but it fills out a niche - have you ideas how it could attack/behave differently?
troll: troll is also one of my top tier myth units which i think needs more attention. the model itself is okay. making a troll a range unit is okay. (even i still think the troll should be melee and fill out the space of the mountain giant - but this is delusional thinking i know) but it should, in my opinion, look still more imposing/bigger and thow bolders/big rocks instead of stones. i would see golbins throwing stones but not scary trolls. i mean it already has quite low accuracy so if wouldn’t matter giving it a bigger one with a different thow animation of course and way more crush than pierce dmg. i also think trolls are about regeneration correct me if i am wrong here.
battle boar: really curious about the battle boar. some say new nemean lion “looks like a toy” and the first thing i think is: eh what about e.g. old battle boar (or old promethean) then lol. i liked its sound design and its special always felt underwhelming and i think a big boar with golden fur would fit better.
scarab: were always an interesting decision for me to be a giant siege unit (instead o# #.#. trolls…) but the design grew on me over the years personally. not really an idea how to change/tweak this one. ideas are very welcome here. but i gernally always thought fitting but thought out and not real mythology based units like scarab and scorpianman should be replaced.
petsuchos: also one of the units i loved as a child and liked a bit less over the years personally speaking. i overall like the idea of a big croc with jewels channeling sunlight. and yes, i think old petsuchos felt bigger than the new one. but here maybe its for the better to not make it as big as the others since its range. hopefully the sun beam feels more powerfull like over time on the same target for example would be cool here i think an upgrade which makes it more badass looking would be also very welcome in my opinion. (crocodopolis upgrade?)
jormund elver: also, as many already know here, very dear to me same goes to fenris. i always felt these two are for a myth age unit too underwhelming (maybe its a bit too harsh for some and i know fenris can be solid regarding hurting the enemy economy but still…) what i primary mean by this they don’t FEEL as badass and strong as so many other myth age units. the design change into making fenris darker, a bit bulkier and bigger as far as i saw gave me high hopes cause i really liked the design direction they seem to take on this unit, so i hope jormun elver get treated similar (to be honest in my 20 years following this game and playing it for about 5 years on and off i never realised those are “just” the offspring which makes me feel bad cause i bet i read it but my mind ignored it but even offspring from a big badass monster should be somewhat big and badass which especially the jormun elver isn’t) jormungandr is a freakin worldserpent and god of war portrayed it amazingly well in my opinion, but jormun elver feel way way more like ordinary watersnakes just a bit more special looking with their neck crest. even the giant kraken feels bigger and more badass with two cool specials (throwing and ship strangle - i think the “ship strangle” should be the special for jormun elvers (aswell?)
sphinx: i really want to add this unit if we are talking about more myth creatures than “just” hydra. cause i never understood a creature which has such a big statue and is also quite impressive in the greek mythology is “just” a classical age myth unit when e.g. nemean lion is heroic. i really think sphinx should be at least heroic tier. designwise i hope she moves more like a construct in TWW. that would be really cool in my opinio. thoughts on this one?
i can see where you are coming from skadidesu. and i kinda agree here.
i obviously don’t agree.
they are fine… cause? some game devs in 2000/2001 thought yeah lets protray hydra that way? only because its nostalgic and it works doesn’t mean its right and should work that way - espcially when they now look in more detail at each unit and improve AoM that greatly. and again i already told a great other way how to improve this unit. and if a stud like me has such an easy solution then i am quite certain some current devs out there too.
why not? it better to brainstorm now and give now the hardworking devs feedback (who obviously want to listen to fans) than too late. maybe someone reads trimyth’s topic who knows? its never too early but sometimes is too late - a lesson i had to learn irl too unfortunately…
so this is no argument, sorry.
not every myth unit has to be giant. only those who it makes sense. but generally every myth unit should be slighlty bigger to show its status among all other units but some only very slighty especially those who you either tend to spam in more numbers or those who are very similar to human - but even those who are similar to humans should be sometimes more transformed and mutated like e.g. minotaur model which is in my opinion on point design wise.
I think that mostly suffers from the old graphics.
It should probably also have a melee attack like all AoE3 units.
I think the troll should look a little less strong because it’s a Classical Age Myth unit.
Also they do pierce damage on purpose because none of the Norse human units do Piece damage (besides the Bogsveigir that was added in the Extended Edition)
Dinosaurs are cool.
A lot of mythological creatures are indirectly based on Dinosaurs.
People found prehistoric bones and their fantasy went wild because they didn’t know any living animal they could belong to.
Scylla should be a half ##### ############### Sounds like a good idea!
i also think that personally that the model primarily suffers from the old graphics. but also wanted to emphasize on the how menacing and strong it should look (with a melee attack at best) and not a kind of fragile only- range unit. i also think manticore flying or giving it the option to fly would be hella awesome.
yeah that troll image i used and the rock i draw might look too massive and too strong for the unit. but 1. this should just be an orientation and a provocative exaggeration to keep design moving in a better direction cause, yes 2. it should look at least more stronger and also should throw something bigger even maybe not as big. the pierce dmg is a fair point you bring up since norse lack that, true. but i think they should give norse a human unit with pierce dmg instead of pushing a troll into that direction to fill a role which could be easily filled by other units, especially human units cause norse did use bows and speers back then too…
i never said i don’t like dinos. i, in fact, really like dinos. i just sperate this nowadays.
i kinda agree that yes, they might have took much inspiration of discovered prehistoric-skeletons from dinos to giant mammals like the mammoth etc. we don’t know for certain but it would definitely makes sense and i support that idea. but i would still give it at least a bit more creative design than “just” a dino-dragon like spawn. if it would look at least more dragon like i would be already fine with it personally.
all these images and suggestions from my side are intended to push the design creativity but its exaggerated on purpose to find a reasonable middleground in the official new design between old AoM and the examples i gave.
i don’t know what you wrote in the censored stuff but i asusme its something connected to revealing? i also don’t know if this comment is sarcastic or your serious opinion. but since you are always very serious in your comments and not really the sarcastic, light-minded guy i assume its meant to be serious. so thanks for agreeing! appreciate every support!
but if its still meant to be sarcastic (even the possibility is very minor) i want to say that this is the most badass design i found and if there are ppl who think a body part of a humanoid monster is too revealing… i honestly don’t know what to say. it doesn’t have details and there are other units and also art in the old game which are similar revealing. its just about the silhouette. and i think arguing about a human woman who got cursed into a monster is more relevant than arguing about a titan who is “just” humanoid from the beginning without a curse, enchantment etc.
AoE3DE has mounting and dismounting units.
That system could be used to make a unit switch between flight and ground mode.
There would have to be some advantage for ground mode though, flight seems to be superior in every way.
I remember the original stones being so small that you can almost not see them so they should be a little bigger.
The idea is that Norse are special because they do not have a human unit with pierce damage.
The troll can be used to catch the enemy off guard because they don’t expect any pierce damage.
It seems like Norse are getting a Hero Archer unit though, according to the screenshots we saw.
I wonder if the Hydra will change it’s appearance with any upgrades.
In AoMR all myth units change appearance when upgraded but the Hydra doesn’t have a dedicated upgrade.
Dionysus only has a tech that gives all units 5% more HP but non that applies to Hydra and Scylla only.
Both.
I would like to see the human part that on Scylla that it has in the image you used but I also know that this can’t be part of the game.
Kinda unfortunate because many characters and gods in ancient statues and art didn’t wear that much clothing, if you know what I mean.
How about both?
Hair before upgrade and armour after upgrade.
Upgrade could add poison, life steal or self heal.
Currently this unit is missing a direct upgrade.
I hope they rework myth unit upgrades though.
Currently they only get them in the same age they are unlocked.
Maybe myth unit upgrades should be moved to later ages even if they are from an earlier minor god.
Love that idea guys! Visually details like that would be amazing!
Regarding the upgrades passives I would see scylla more with a lifesteal upgrade or a one hit attack like a scream maybe which destroys one ship immediately.
Poison dmg is something hydra should get. Regeneration and poison are so iconic for hydra…
i am personally open that battle boar can be a construct again but i just want to give the idea of a fleshy boar with golden fur as an alternative a spotlight. since i think Gullinbursti has fur and isn’t a construct in lore.
scarab is something really crazy which happaned cause of two things: 1. as far as i know its not really a mythological important monster even it fits quite well, and especially 2. it uses a stag beetles head but is called scarab which always kinda bothered me even i think stag beetles are one of the cooler beetles for sure.
there could be a possibility to make scarab a construct now which i think would fit the unit well.
stymphalian bird is i think also primarily just a victim of old graphics similar to manticore. but a part of me just sees an ordniary giant eagle in it which i personally hope will really get changed similar to how unique and exotic the roc now looks.
the last one is kinda unfair i guess… i put pics of another unit in instead of the original lampedes even tho thats the hole point: to look after inspirational images for the devs and the community of the original units. but lampedes always felt out of place for hekate since she doesn’t have really a connection to them but she does have a strong connection to empusas and even tho lampedes is a cool unit, empusa is way more interesting and badass and would be a greatly missed opportunity to not be included in the game in my honest opinion.
just wanted to clarify the images and thoughts behind a bit.
Off-topic, but I’ve always wanted to see dinosaurs in an Age game, even if they would have to be modded in. I remember someone made a T. rex unit for the OG AoM and posted it on AoM Heaven.
It would have to be a prequel-spinoff of AoE 1, from the Precambrian to the Cenozoic, something like Spore…
Precambrian: you have a colony of cells that feeds on its neighbors until you come to the surface
Paleozoic: you come to the surface and feed on your neighbors until you start to grow in size
Mesozoic: the classic age of dinosaurs (1st, 2nd, 3rd stages of dinosaurs)
Cenozoic: the fall of the meteorite and the end of the dinosaurs, which leads to the evolution of mammals until reaching prehistory with the first hominids
