NGL, that video is utter bollocks. Of COURSE it won’t be a strong as ballistics; ballistics is stupidly OP, because it takes zero skill. By contrast, attack ground on scorpions would take significant skill, raising their skill ceiling dramatically.
If that’s not enough, you could consider additional perks, like boosting their damage or their splash damage slightly.
But to say stuff like ‘you only get half damage against everything!’ when before ballistics you literally never hit your primary target when it was moving and now you COULD completely misses the point of attack ground.
Neegla? Nalla irukengla? Yes. I agree that maybe give them a wood penalty.
100% agree on this but it’s more for late-game.
Their tech tree is good for defences, foot archers and infantry. Some would argue that their defence tech tree is not so good because of a lack of bombard tower. Their cavalry is average at best. Take away plate barding armor and it’s below average. Siege is in a similar position. Warwolf is good but too expensive to get in the early imperial age.
Look at it this way… despite all the buffs I proposed, they’ll get rekt hard by any good siege ram civ… and even by some siege onagers.
That would nerf the archer line too hard.
The tower change would buff them but the general tower line is only used to protect against archers and to annoy people with tower rushes.
I’m talking about buffing the elite conquistador. The castle age conquistador might actually need to be nerfed further… like -5 HP. I think other than maybe Berbers, most civilizations would die hard to an army of 3-5 conquistadors. Average mobility (compared to other cav) + high attack + average HP means a unit that can be deadly when microed well.
The elite conquistador gets too little in exchange for 1200 food, 600 gold. An imperial age unit should not get outranged by castle age mangonels, crossbowmen, elite skirmishers, scorpions, etc.
Some would say that this is OP. 30 gold for each feudal age upgrade seems strong. Hera had actually remarked that you can totally go up to castle age without mining any gold. Bonuses are more difficult to balance out because they are available for free and from the start.
loom = 20 gold, left with 70 gold.
Town watch, scale barding armor, double bit axe, iron casting, wheel barrow / horseshoe collar
If you do these researches, you will be left with 220 gold. If you add bloodlines, you will be left with 200 gold. It’s possible to go scouts, fully upgrade them and be able to click up to the castle age without mining gold.
general as in it affects all civs? Removing gold cost of elite skirmisher sounds good but can make some skirmishers a little OP like Lithuanians, Britons, Mayans, Byzantines
Khmer ain’t gonna get weak any time soon. They’re OP right now in the right cases.
Yeah… I agree that I should have thought this through.
My current summary on the subject is about this. It is not super up-to-date, and there will certainly still be some oversight.
All
→ Improve the accuracy of the ‘Town Centre’.
→ Increase the cost of the ‘Fortified Church’ from 200 W to 225 W.
Armenians
→ Swap ‘Multe Cart’ for ‘Mining Camp’ and ‘Lumber Camp’.
→ Remove ‘Mule Carts cost -25%’.
→ ‘Mule Cart Mining Camp and Lumber Camptechnologies are 40% more effective’.
→ Add ‘Fortified Church cost -20%’.
→ Move the ‘Long Swordsman and above, and Spearman line available one Age earlier’ to the Dravidians.
→ Remove ‘Galley-line and Dromons fire one additional projectile.
→ Add ‘Fishing Ship are produced 25% faster’ as Civilization bonus.
→ ‘Cilician Fleet’: Demolition Ships +20% blast radius; Galley-line and Dromons +1 range fire one additional projectile’.
→ Move the current effect of ‘Fereters: Infantry (except Spearman-line) +30 hit points, Warrior Priests +100% heal speed’ to Georgians.
→ Add ‘Fereters: Mounted units regenerate 15 hit points per minute’ from Georgians.
→ Move the current ‘Team bonus: Infantry have +2 Line of Sight’ to Dravidians.
→ Add ‘Team bonus: Docks provide +5 population space’ from Dravidians.
Recap:
→ Fishing Ship are produced 25% faster.
→ Mining Camp and Lumber Camp technologies are 40% more effective.
→ Fortified Church cost -20%.
→ First Fortified Church receives a free Relic, it does not affect the Relic Victory.
→ ‘Cilician Fleet’: Demolition Ships +20% blast radius; Galley-line and Dromons fire one additional projectile.
→ ‘Fereters’: Mounted units regenerate 15 hit points per minute (moved from Georgians).
→ Team bonus: Docks provide +5 population space (moved from Dravidians).
→ Swap ‘Arbalester’ for ‘Heavy Cavalry Archer’.
→ Add ‘Parthian Tactics’
→ Add ‘Camel Rider’.
→ Add ‘Paladin’.
→ Swap ‘Ring Archer Armor’ for ‘Plate Barding Armour’.
→ Add ‘Shipwright’.
→ Add ‘Siege Engineers’.
→ In conclusion, they should be ‘Cavalry and Naval civilisation’.
Aztecs
→ Villagers carry +3 +4.
Bohemians
→ ‘Mining Camp technologies Gold Mining and Gold Shift Mining are free’.
→ Add ‘Hoardings cost -50%’ as Civilization bonuses (look at the unique castle they have).
→ Move the ‘Infantry +1 attack per age (starting in the Feudal Age)’ to Celts.
→ Add ‘Elite Battle Elephant upgrade is 50% cheaper’ as Civilization bonuses.
→ Move ‘Relics are visible on the map from the game start’ from Team bonus to Civilization bonuses (shared exploration is active by default).
→ Add ‘Knight units and elephant units have +2 attack against standard buildings’ as Team bonus.
Reacap:
→ Lumber Camp technologies are free (unchanged).
→ Battle Elephants have +1/+1 armor (unchanged).
→ Elite Battle Elephant upgrade and Monastery technologies are 50% cheaper.
→ Relics are visible on the map from the game start.
→ ‘Manipur Cavalry’: Gives cavalry units +4 attack against archers (unchanged).
→ ‘Howdah’: Gives Battle Elephants +1/+1 armor (unchanged).
→ Team bonus: Knight units and elephant units have +2 attack against standard buildings.
Byzentines
→ Fix the voice lines (thread).
→ Byzantine architecture set (can be shared with other civilisations).
→ Team bonus: Monks heal 100% 80% faster.
Dravidians
→ Add ‘Long Swordsman and above, and Spearman line available one Age earlier’ from Armenians.
→ Move the current Team bonus ‘Docks provide +5 population space’ to Armenians.
→ Add ‘Team bonus: Infantry have +2 Line of Sight’ from Armenians.
→ ‘Fishing Ships carry +15 (except Fish Traps)’.
Reacap:
→ Receive 200 wood when advancing to the next Age (unchanged).
→ Fishermen, Oyster gatherers, and Fishing Ships carry +15 (except Fish Traps).
→ Barracks technologies are 50% cheaper. Long Swordsman and above, and Spearman line available one Age earlier (from Armenians).
→ Siege units cost -33% wood (unchanged).
→ Skirmishers and Elephant Archers attack 25% faster (unchanged).
→ Medical Corps: Elephant units regenerate 30 hit points per minute (unchanged).
→ Wootz Steel: Infantry and cavalry attacks ignore armor (unchanged).
→ Team bonus: Infantry have +2 Line of Sight (from Armenians).
Georgians
→ Give the ‘Warrior Priest’.
→ Move ‘Mounted units regenerate 5/10/15 hit points per minute in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age’ to Armenians.
→ Move ‘Aznauri Cavalry: Mounted units take 15% less population space’ to Civilization bonuses.
→ ‘Svan Towers’: Defensive structures receive +2 +3 attack. Towers deal pass-through damage.
→ Add ‘Aznauri Infantry’: Infantry (except Spearman-line) +30 hit points, Warrior Priests +80% heal speed (from Armenians)
Reacap:
→ Start the game with a Mule Cart (unchanged).
→ Fortified Churches provide +10% work rate to Villagers (unchanged).
→ Mounted units take 15% less population space.
→ Units and buildings receive -20% damage when fighting from higher elevation (unchanged).
→ ‘Svan Towers’: Defensive structures receive +3 attack. Towers deal pass-through damage.
→ ‘Aznauri Infantry’: Infantry (except Spearman-line) +30 hit points, Warrior Priests +100% heal speed (from Armenians).
→ Team bonus: Repairing buildings costs -25% resources (unchanged).
→ Give the ‘Camel Rider’.
→ Swap ‘Parthian Tactics’ for ‘Thumb Ring’.
→ Swap ‘Bracer’ for ‘Ring Archer Armor’.
→ Increase (Elite) Monaspa hit points from 70 (80) to 80 (95).
Goths
→ Remove ‘Villagers +5 attack vs. wild boar’.
→ Remove the Gunpowder Units and improve historical accuracy. For example:
→ Swap ‘Hand Cannoner’ for ‘Thumb Ring’.
→ Swap ‘Bombard Cannon’ for one of ‘Siege Ram’, ‘Siege Onager’ and ‘Siege Engineers’.
→ Swap ‘Plate Barding Armor’ for ‘Hussar’ and ‘Husbandry’.
→ Find a more proper name for ‘Huskarl’.
→ Rebalance the ‘Genoese Crossbowman’ (thead).
→ Rebalance the ‘Condottiero’ (thread).
→ Backport the Galeazza from AoE3.
Khmer
→ Move ‘Scorpions have +1 range’ from Team bonus to Civilization bonuses.
→ Add ‘Elephants have +2 Line of Sight’ as Team bonus.
Poles
→ Increase ‘Obuch’ cost from 55F 20G to 55F 25G.
Mongols
→ Fix the ‘Mangudai’ bonus damage (thread).
→ Move ‘Lost houses do not drecrease population headroom’ to Civilization bonus.
→ Move ‘Scout-line and Steppe Lancer +30% HP’ to ‘Nomads’ Unique technology.
Sicilians
→ Farm upgrades affects existing Farms and provide additional +125% +50% food.
→ Hauberk: Knights Barracks and Stable units +1/+2P +1/+1P armor.
Teutons
→ Make the ‘Crusader Knight’ a unique unit upgrade like the ‘Savar’ (thread).
Turks
→ Add (Elite) Steppe Lancer.
→ Sipahi: Mounted archers and Steppe Lancers +20 hit points.
For the Gurjaras Shrivamsha Rider, I think a better change would be to make their dodge mechanic only active while they are moving, so when they stop to attack they can no longer dodge. Maybe best way to implement it would be that their dodge charge gets reset to zero every time they strike an enemy, so that way players aren’t pressured into heavy micro.
Yes their cavalry is average and that’s actually good enough. You get plate barding armor, so late game light cavs are good but castle age cavalry play is weak. That’s a fair balance. While I agree the lack of bombard canons is substantial, they get onagers, heavy scorps with siege engineers. They also have full upgrades on halberdiers, so infantry + siege play is only inferior to civs like Celts, Romans, Bohemians which have bonuses for siege. And the warwolf is well worth its cost in many situations when treb battles begin. You’ll take out 3-4 trebs losing at max 1. Apart from just trebs, it will land 100% on canons, if skirms get stacked up, a targeted treb hit will take out a bunch of them. These are of huge value.
Coming to defense in late game, 17 attack towers should be more than decent to defend against light cav raids. If you combine warwolf trebs in a treb war, longbows, yeomen towers and a full blacksmith military, the end product is above average. Giving a very important tech like bloodlines will definitely be an overbuff. You can justify bloodlines if you reduce the sheep bonus to 15%, tc discount to 25% and remove the free extra range in castle age and make it +2 in imp.
Sure but I would make longbows significantly better than Arbs. The Britons play will then become centered around longbow transition, which is a good thing imo.
Guard tower defense is also used against monk mangonel pushes. Since they have lower winrates against civs with a bonus on their scorps, I assume their archers are getting less value beyond the first few mins of castle age due to ballistic scorps. So I think guard towers with +4 against siege can be good for forward tower aggression in mid castle age. And its not just tower change, OG archer production + tower change. Combined that can be effective.
Oh sorry my bad. I somehow missed it. Ya sure I love such nerfs to castle age version of gunpowder units and buffs to their elite.
I believe you meant f letching by iron casting. But these are too many upgrades. Town watch is critical against forward rushes otherwise its just an idle tc filler when you get housed, not a necessity in feudal age. Plus its a bad build to click upto castle age without collecting gold and then moving a whole bunch of vills to gold. Most pros including Hera do the opposite in Arabia and similar maps, they collect extra gold, start adding foot archers and buy 100 or 200 food to click up. Loom 20 gold, Double bit axe + horse collar + wheelbarrow + f letching = 120. Mostly these are the upgrades done in feudal age. And the net resource benefit is 190 gold (140 extra and 50 waived from f letching) which is on par with a lot of mid tier civs, well below the top tier civs. If castle age conqs are to be nerfed, it’s good to compensate that with such a change.
Yes in my first reply in this post, I proposed something like Towers +1 (+2, +3 for guard towers and keep) vs vills and towers getting +1, +2, +3 stone defense armor. This would make it more diffcult to take down towers with vills tilting the balance in favor of civs with a tower rush bonus, and thereby Spanish. Spanish towers will be built and repaired faster, so a generic tower rush benefit will favor them.
For the skirm upgrade, my bad, I meant it specific for Spanish. So Spanish alone losing gold cost on elite skirm upgrade.
They’ve lost bombard canons, ranged units don’t get thumb ring, elephants still aren’t a feasible main army in 1v1s and won’t be as long as monks and halbs stay as they are today. Ballistas have been nerfed for TGs. I know their scorps are great but those are slow, fragile against other siege. Its necessary to have hussar upgrade to raid as well as kill onagers and canons. I’d be ok even if they lose cavalier upgrade or heavy CA upgrade but not hussar.
Removing Flemish Revolution Grrrr
Seriously although I see that there are problems with the tech, I think the removel is VERY unecesarry it is a unique and creative tech which gives the civ a unique flavor. I really dont understand why especially Pros hate it soooo much.
From what I see on the patch notes, there’s no mention of removing Flemish revolution. They made Flemish militia trainable from Feudal age without the tech, but I think as it stands they will still have “the button” (which will just change all their villagers into Flemish militia).
