Context: late game
Cav and Skirms seem to be killed by a Giant Grenadier’s mass and the trades do not feel like you are countering them.
counter? please mate you don’t counter the giant grenadier, the giant grenadier counter you.
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canons and ninjas. Lol. It might not work but its worth a shot
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Giant grens being heavy infantry should be countered by skirms, but there are some things that doesn’t let them counter them very effectively…
- HP of giant grens let them tank hit and close the distance without too many losses
- the AoE damage that giant grens do at range mean they can hurt more skirms at once and let them defeat group of skirms instead on one at time
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Artillery (Falconets+Horse Artillery) combined with meatshield cavalry. 4 Giant Grenadiers are almost equal in price to 1HA, 1 Hussar, and 1 Dragoon, so in theory ‘GG only’ spam army is not cost-wise against Artillery+Cavalry.
use cavalry only as a ranged damage absorber, don’t get closer to GGs.
The problem is when the opponent is using Culverins and cavalry, if so then you have to micromanagement your units.
RIP to native americans
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Skirms on scatter formation?
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skirm+cannon counter them. You will easily drain the enemy if you do this and micro some. Giant grens are very expensive so dont look at one of your armies dying and think giant grens are OP. Its a cognitive bias because you arent considering the cost it is to the enemy to muster the giant grens.
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Skirms do counter them because you significantly out range them especially if you get CIR, otherwise cannons also counter them.
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My lovely Grenadiers are 1 of the best units in the game. But cannons are good vs them . but the best counter are the American gatling and Portugal gunner gatling. who ever use the grenadiers they will go low in gold so better make a strategy against that. 
The thing is once the player gets tired of being kited, they turn their focus to villagers and eco buildings and with the high siege and higher then standard siege range it quickly becomes a game of plug the holes while trying to chase down the giants as they scatter in your base, and while yes cannons and skirms counter GG’s they are all at the same speed or slower then GG so good luck catching them once they smash there way through.
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ok, this game is very complex, you need to develop skills:
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hit and run skill. Dominate this key skill, the more knowledgeable and skilled you become at this key task, the easier to counter.
Using hit and run skill with skirmish you can kill them using your 20 range versus a 12 range. -
As they have area 3 damage at 12 range, you have to use staggered formation in order to diminish their damage.
You must dominate this skill. -
To dominate this skills practice on sceneray editor or versus a partner
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Any artillery that has good range and damage (the best is horse artillery because you can follow them if they scape or change direction towards your economy) , properly defended by units that can hurt giant grenadier too at 20 range as skirmishers (light infatry that has bonus ersus heavy infantry) and a mass of dragons to kill cavalry or counter the counter to your skirmishers.
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master your skill on killing units in less time, by manually using your units to kill them.
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take in count that giant grenadier use 2 population, so if you see 50 of them , you could use 50 skirmishers and 6 horse artillery and 10 dragoons would be good as neither of this units is countered by giant grenadier is population equally. This would give you 100 population versus 100 population. but 50 unit versus 66 unit. You would win on this fight, but take care about a massive horse army coming for your vulnerable army after you killed those giant grenadier
The unit is countered by any unit that can make hit and run and has a 20 range and an animation that dont lose time to hit and run.
Also your units must have the same speed that giant grenadiers in order to dont be catch by them.
Share the stats of the giant granadiers you were confronting, because maybe they have an additional charged attack.
Errors to avoid:
Do not use cavalry, giant grens have meele 1.5 versus all cavalry. and have 30% resistance versus meele attacks. Meele cavalry is the worst unit to counter them.
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Ill assume its more than mono comp thats giving you grief. Also that giant grens have more in common with musks than standard grens.
Giant grens alone can be counteres by skirms or cannon in a vaccuum but the civs that show up with these guys tend to have solid heavy cav.
In late game, cannons tend to be caught up with other cannons and skirms dont get to do much while running away from cav. Thinking is the standard counter system really goes nowhere with these kinds of units.
What you want (need) is to use ranged cav. You want a high hp, high damage ranged unit with a big unit model - all together you have a unit thats naturally to spaced out to take much less splash damage than infantry and is alot more resilient than a skirm. Ruyters and other 1 pop ranged cav are worse than normal goons here since they stack close. Best wouls be war wagons/howdahs.
You still need to micro the goons to win, but strats built around Ggrens should lose to goon/cannon.
Skirms and hit and run.
Dont forget Anti-infantery Rifles from the arsenal!
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There is just no reason they should make good trades with Heavy Infantry, Light Infantry, Hand Cavalry and Light Cavalry. On top of that they destroy building very fast. What a broken unit.
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¿De dónde sacaste esa imagen? ¿La hiciste tú?
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Every mercenary can be killed by spies. Spy shipment is too good too and it’s a casual strategy right now on building a mass of them instead of pikes for example.
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Only cannons can effectively kill them.
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This is not true for Age V Giand Granaiders from Sweden (Hitpoints card, Age V politician and Merc upgrade). The problem is that spies do not have enough upgrades to keep up. Spies do win in age 3 before the Giant Grenadiers get all their upgrades.
I did some testing and what is found is that the main problem with Giant Grenadiers is when Sweden makes them in Age V with upgrades that stack too well. There is the hitpoints card (age 2), Merc upgrade card (age 4), Arsenal Upgrade card (enables techs that buff all gunpowder infantry), the normal Aresnal upgrades that buff musk hand attack and Granideir Area damage size). Finally, there is the Age V politician that buffs all mercs.
With some testing, I found that these Giant Grenadiers (Swedish with all buffs) beat Vanilla Skirms (with all buffs) when they are all in range of each other (same pop amount). That breaks the counter system. The Skirms will win if they are as fast (or faster) than the GG and you kite them. If you have Dutch Skirms that are slower or cheaper Skirm with less range than 20 range then you have a problem.
Yes, kitting works but if the enemy only makes GG then you have to only make Skirms and then you can’t defend your buildings and GG kill buildings really well. You can make cannons but the Swedish player can also make cannons and cannons do better against low-hp units like Skirms so then we are again at the same issue.
This seems like a late game (buff stacking) issue once against that will not get solved.
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