I don’t think the aura-design of the Folwark is great, but at least it encouarges different gameplay (ie buildings farms away from the safety of TCs). I don’t want a unique aspect of a civ to be shared with other civs. Teutons already have a farming bonus, if needed that should be tweaked. Having several different bonuses just for farms is inelegant design.
Which is why I’d propose that if this building regionalizes that the Polish would then have a bonus called “Folwarks pull in 2x as much food instantly” and essentially leaving their play with it unchanged and other civs would only get 5% instead of 10
it would still be 2 farm bonuses for Teutons: Folwarks and cheaper farms.
If farms are cheaper, there is less risk in buildings farms away from the TC, because repositioning them isn’t as much of a cost. It undermines the design of Folrwarks.
The issue is that it isn’t enough for them to have an early game presence
I think the bigger issue is the power creep of other civs
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I’m not sure how. This isn’t like where you build a team with a certain enemy archetype in mind in a draft pick.
Either someone has Teutons or they don’t.
This would only effect Teutons vs other matchups but if Teutons aren’t in play then there shouldn’t be any effect on the other 1352 non mirror match 1v1s
Roughly; the reload time the same as the Savar’s, I imagine, and I’m not sure how much melee armour. It’s quicker and cheaper to research (because it incorporates the Cavalier and Paladin).
| Unit | Upgrade time | Upgrade cost | HP | Pierce armour | Tankiness |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Elite Letis | 45s | 750F 750G | 150 (130 + 20) | 6 (1 + 4) | 30 Arbalester shots |
| Elite Cataphract | 50s | 1200W 800G | 150 (150) | 6 (1 + 4) | 30 Arbalester shots |
| Cavalier | 80s | 300F 300G | 140 (120 + 20) | 6 (2 + 4) | 35 Arbalester shots |
| Elite Boyar | 60s | 1000F 600G | 150 (130 + 20) | 7 (3 + 4) | 50 Arbalester shots |
| Paladin | 170s | 1300F 750G | 180 (160 + 20) | 7 (3 + 4) | 60 Arbalester shots |
| Savar | 160s | 1200F 600G | 165 (145 + 20) | 8 (4 + 4) | 82.5 (83) Arbalester shots |
| Crusader | 190s | 1200F 800G | 175 (155 + 20) | 6 (2 + 4) | 43.5 (44) Arbalester shots |
It’s not set in stone, of course.
but the issue isn’t restricted to Teutons. Most of the classic civs have lost identity, because newer civs outshine them in their specialities, or are as good in their speciality while also being more generalist.
What’s needed to improve Teutons and other civs are across the board nerfs for the new civs, not minor tweaks that dilute civ identity.
So this takes longer to research, costs about the same (more gold but less food), but provides less benefit (less hp, less pierce armor). Seems like a nerf to me.
And for what? This seems like change for change’s sake.
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Please note, you skip the Cavalier upgrade: the times and costs listed above for Paladin & Savar do not include the cost and time of Cavalier
good point. it still leaves them with a lower ceiling.
I don’t see what this is trying to achieve. Imperial age and heavy cav is not where Teutons are struggling.
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You would still have the Baltic Crusades, where the Teutonic Order fought hard…
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I am always in favor of making Husbandry more exclusive. It is really a bad design that after 26 years only 2 OG civs don’t have Husbandry.
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Unlikely. The biggest mistake wasn’t failing to provide Husbandry to the Teutons; it was failing to make up for that shortfall in some way.
How do you make up for its shortcomings? Another civ with extra HP or armour?
The compensation for lack of mobility should be a well designed bonus to towers.
Both help in securing the map in different ways,
Teuton towers are good, but mostly in the early game for aggression because they can shoot down other towers more effectively. In later stages this helps a little against CA, but not enough as you have to idle a lot of your eco anyways, which is the most value CA give usually anyways,
My teuton concept actually evolves around that idea, actually nerfing teuton towers early on with giving all civs extra garrison capacity, but adjusting teutons UT to make theirs especially good against CA (extra projectiles with lower accuracy that spread and damage CA even when microed).
Give me some time. I hope I can come up with some idea.
Precisely why I suggested replacing whole Knight line.
- Samurai is most definitely the main obstacle of any UU.
That can work. But I don’t think Folwark will be expanded to other civs. Also it will be a mental/psychological nerf to players if they accidentally or forcibly place a farm outside of Folwark aura.
Neither do I. But I wanna see other Japanese scenario only unit to be available - Mounted Samurai replacing the CA.
True.
If wanna double down on farming, what about farmers being able to drop off at Tower? You’re also doubling down on their defensive identity.
The only thing that springs to mind is taking the stone bonus away from the Bohemians and giving it to the Teutons. Then there’s the problem of the TR being too powerful, so you need to set a limit. In other words, the TC and the towers have more space but don’t fire any more arrows.
I’ve removed ‘Monks have double healing range.’ because there are too many bonuses.
No gold shaft mining for Teutons.
- It keeps their monk play in line.
- Encourages food/wood-heavy infantry and siege play, fitting their more defensive playstyle.
- It’s not fair for them to get an amazing farm bonus plus Gold Shaft Mining on top of Two-Man Saw and Crop Rotation.
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That’s right. I guess I need to play more games…
I wouldn’t be opposed to that: infantry can use the buff.
I would prefer Paladin just take its rightful place as the longest standing regional unit. With Persians no longer having Paladin it now is a European regional unit.
Towers really just need a rework. They’re better offensively than defensively, and one mangonel or one castle completely neuters them.
Let towers be drop-off site for villagers, and increase garrison space. Towers can be more useful to defend eco site. One mangonel can neuter Watch tower but not Guard Tower.
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