What to do with the classic civs (Franks, Britons, Teutons....)?

I don’t think so. Husbandry only becomes available in castle age, and that’s after the parts that makes Georgians so hard to balance. Specifically, their super-fast feudal timing and their abysmally poor early castle age. Husbandry is irrelevant to their feudal timing, and its availability doesn’t help their early castle age.

Why nerf something that’s already weak?

But I don’t think the current tower rush is oppressive.

The biggest problem AOE 2 de has with changing existing civs is that they have to redo and retest all campaigns becouse of that.

I think all this talk further reinforces a need for a completely Classic section to the main menu where aside from the obvious graphic, QoL (some) improvements we get the standard roster of civs (up to AoC, but up for debate).

This not only tackles the fear of feature/civ-creep by keeping a classic ‘branch’ seperate - it would also alllow a little more (justified/sensible) attention paid to the original civs without changing their original feeling.

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I think we should be cautious about introducing such regional units, as doing so would further complicate the situation and slow down new players’ understanding of the game.

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Please add tiger cavalry to this list :smiley:

this doesn’t change the fact that most knights never went on a crusade.

this feels very ad hoc. The reason (ie a problem in the game) should come first, which requires a solution. Instead you have come up with a solution, and are now trying to justify it.

yes, standard roster of civs, but most importantly before they were reworked (none of this aura, charge attack, etc nonsense)

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It’s literally a cav civ. No.

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I don’t think that a cav civ necessarily need husbandry to be a cav civ. Burgundians does not have access to Bloodlines but Burgundians is still good enough. Lacking husbandry will be weaker to cavalry archers and camels tho.

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i agree that a cav civ doesn’t need to have husbandry, but I think taking it away from georgians would make this super snowbally civ even snowballier. Not being able to choose fights would mean they lose even harder when they lose

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also against foot archers, because it takes you longer to catch up with them
and against other knights, because if you’re losing the fight, you can’t just run away

Possibly. But if it overtunes Teutonic Farms you could reduce the farm discount amount back to 33%. It could even be Farms and Folwarks are cheaper instead and then the discount is like 30 instead

Yes to garrison space, no to towers as drop-offs. It sounds like something more befitting a single civ bonus (like the Vainakh, that is Chechens and Ingush), not all of them.

I’d also increase their HP and/or armor.

Gather point towers could be interesting for aggressive teabagging. I towered your wood or gold line I’m gonna steal some of it thanks

Not the most powerful bonus but it is a diss when it works well

Given that devs removed the Goth bonuses to limit the lame, I imagine that TR with drop-off points for ultra-aggressive strategies isn’t exactly welcome.

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I’m pretty sure the goth damage bonus switch was less about laming and more about killing the boar too fast before it was under the TC by accident

what are you just sending 7 villagers forward just to rot an enemy boar

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This was done straight after the patch where you can kill the boar with the TC or using military units without losing any food. Anti-lame, cleary.

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I think Teutons not being picked in tournaments is a problem. But If you ignore tournaments, they are just fine both in terms of pick rate and win rate. And the reason they are not picked in tournaments is this list:

Note that, Wei was also considered as one of if not the weakest civ when their eco bonus was weaker.

Berbers vill speed doesn’t count as eco bonus!? How is faster moving vil bad? This is literally part of why Wheelbarrow and Hand Cart are so good

It’s not top tier but being able to move faster to a node or back from one or around a farm is not worthless

Also farms are available in dark age if you absolutely need them

Questioanble. Teutons are not picked because they lack mobility, and they’re absolutely dependent on gold.
Not to mention certain match-ups, such as against the Britons, which are pretty much unplayable