What to do with the Organ Gun?

So let’s remove 1 of the only 2 unique units of a civ, a civ that’s already extremely dull. Are you seeing the issue here?

Portugal needs a rework. Not a light touch-up like China and Spain have gotten, but a full-on rework of their foundation, gameplay loop, and entire playstyle. They are the epitome of boring.

Not quite to the extent of a rework that India or the Native civs need, but they absolutely need one.

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That’s just factually incorrect since both moonshineaoe and RhythmicBoar556 have given their opinion and it doesn’t match yours.

I won’t deny that my opinion is very likely in the minority in THIS THREAD, but you probably know that the majority of the “community” doesn’t post in the forum, so your claim that the “community” agrees that it should be changed doesn’t hold as much water as you claim it does.

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And like I said: you can please both camps by giving a card for Ports that replaces all Organ Guns and replaces the option of recruiting Organ Guns for something like Berços, Trom, Roqueiras or Bronze Cannons. I don’t get why is my position so unpopular here, but hey, living and learning, I guess.

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I don’t want to just take it away and then leave an even more boring Portugal behind.

There are multiple other threads about what should be changed about Portugal and nearly everyone agrees that the Organ Gun should be replaced.

I wanted to discuss here what should happen to the unit after it got replaced.
A few people suggested Mercenary, which is a nice idea.

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I see where you coming from, but if you have a card to replace it for a berco, better off to directly replace it the way i see it. Its a bit radical for a faction to be changed like this but unfortunately they are bland. My suggestion is actually replacing it for another unique unit. I have to agree with @AnaWinters on this one.

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Look, personally I would’ve radically change a lot of factions (Ports, Germans, Hauds, Lakota, Indians) but I feel like we have to keep our expectations a bit more realistic. I personally don’t see Forgotten Empires going that far when it comes to the changes in each faction.

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Always ask for the stars! :grin:

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Is there a potential Portugese artillery piece or similar unit that could replace the Organ gun, yet keep its gameplay? stats, speed etc?

Civ “reworks” generally come with a few new cards. The British and Spanish didnt get their roster or gameplay reworked and I don’t think the Portugese will be different. A few cards and acces to a new unit through those cards is what the reworks so far have brought.

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This would be the closest thing


Another option

And give me musketers age 2 with this:

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I also want those musketeers for Spain!

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Removing the organ gun seems like a pretty drastic change. Although they have already done others for historical accuracy.

I would be happy with a few new things like:

  • Military shipments of Cannoneers (cost gold)

  • Military shipments from natives of the royal house of Hasburg / Wettin (cost food/wood)

  • Military shipments or new unit of “Aventureiros” (Doppelsoldner reworked)

  • New interesting cards from age I

  • New building like Feitoria

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Portugal could have a unique new card to improve the collection in mills and plantations a little more, at least in late game.
It could be called the “Sugar Cycle” to reflect how, at least in colonies (like Brazil), sugar production was the flagship of the economy.
Another card could refer to the Battle of Matapan, or the race in India to make at least the Portuguese caravels stronger than those of other European civilizations.

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They could rename the first tech of the Church Card from Encomienda Manor to Sugar Cycle.

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Once again, true to a certain extent. By that logic we would have to admit that Janissaries are simply an Ottoman version of the musketeer or that cassadors are just a portuguese version of the skirmisher. However, I am not sure I agree with that line of thought. The fact that they fill a similar combat role does not mean they are the same. Stats values for the Janissary and the musketeer are similar, but not the same. The same can be said about the Abus gun and the hand cannoneer.

I would, however, advocate for a slight tweaking of the cannoneer’s stats to make it a bit more different from the Abus guns to make sure that their combat impact is slightly more differentiated just as the commbat impact of cassadors is different from the impact of a regular skirmisher.

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The devs are starting to do more and more bigger things.
Look at how many new features they added in the last DLC. So many new mechanics.

Yes they are.

A Cassador is unique Skirmisher.
The Abus Gun is a lot more unique Skirmisher. They are the only one that does Siege damage.
Now with the Fire Throwers they are a little less unique but the Fire Thrower also has a lot of differences like having AoE damage and not benefiting from Counter Infantry Rifling.

The Cannonier is basically identical to an Abus Gun with slightly different numbers.

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Those were simply a battalion of 400 musketeers. Curiously enough, the unit would have made more sense if it were released as a mercenary for a DLC based in South East Asia with major civs like the Siamese and the Burmese.

I think what it needs is perhaps a card similar to the US so like it ships 2 organ guns then 1 then back to 2 and a card similar to the US coffee mill guns card to buff the organ gun. Currently they just get sniped by falconets and the shipment of 2 compared to 2 falconets is very underwhelming.