They hope that Gurjaras now just overtake Franks as tg pocket civ 
Problem fixed and dlc sold.
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the closest to civ v civ win rates i could find is this:
which is kind of out-dated.
it gives franks best matchup as tatars with 60% winrate.
Mayans have 58% winrate in their best matchup (byzantines)
Chinese have 57% (Cumans)
considering that 45-55% winrate is the overall goal, i doubt the aim for civ-v-civ-winrate is the same narrow range. nobody will say that chinese vs portuguese on arabia is meant to be balanced. or spanish vs huns on
nomad. so a 40-60% range is probably more likely. ie these civs are not OP. I’m not saying they shouldnt be tweaked though
claiming that high pick rate means a civ is OP is just wrong.
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… which (besides being outdated) just again shows how useless looking at winrates is: Tartars is arguably the best civ vs franks. Vs Indians you can at least play siege pike but vs tartars ca there isn’t a lot franks can do.
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Mayans
- Fish and Fish Traps are now properly affected by the Mayan civilization bonus of longer lasting resources.
Mayans got a buff on mixed maps lol.
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Here’s the updated stats page. Also shows map-wise stats.
it depends on what you define as “high”. If all players above a certain elo always went random, the play rate of civs will fall very close to 2.5% after several thousand games. Obviously there will be some variance because people do tend to pick certain civs which are good for certain maps. Anything with a pick rate more than 3.75 is heavily favored by a lot of players.
And think about this. Why would so many players pick the same civ in most of their games? And why did it continue to be Franks, Mayans and a few others across so many patches even though many civs were introduced, balance changes were made.? Why top players in the world continue to pick these civs across many tournament formats while many civs were popular in only some tournaments like Japanese for hidden cup but not Kotd-4 or RBW series or ED2 duo, Ethiopians for RBW and TG tournaments but not Kotd-4 or Hidden cup etc)?
-because it’s a civ they know well
-because a top level player put them into S tier in some tier list (possible several patches ago)
-because they like the architecture
-nostalgia
-100s of other possible reasons
different tournaments have different maps/settings, so different civs become good. some civs like franks, have eco bonuses that are almost universally useful (faster berries, free farm upgrades), while others (Mongols, faster hunt) are more map specific.
none of this justifies nerfing these civs.
Also even top players will pick civs not entirely rationally.
eg (first stats for civ performance in a tournament i found: Reddit - Dive into anything) in Red Bull Wololo Mayans and Persians got picked 12 times each (highest was Aztecs and Vikings with 15), but only had win rates of 28.57% and 14.29% respectively
for completeness: Franks were picked 14 times (banned once, played 9times) with a win rate of 55%
Britons had 11 picks, banned once, played 7times, win rate 42.86%
Chinese were admin banned in that tournament
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guys mayans got buffed with fish boost lol
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The only reason why I’m okay with this is because it’s only technically a buff and was intended to provide a little bit of consistency for the Mayans’ longer-lasting resources.
Mayans absolutely do not need any buff whatsoever and I pray that the devs know they need to nerf them, but this isn’t as direct as it could’ve been.
mayans arent that great on hybrid/water maps anyway, so this is really minor
Or maybe slightly nerf the farming bonus, and keep the berry one.
Making it not free and immediate, just a discount.
Like the Burgundians discount, but without the access in the previous age.
Or like the Vietnamese one, but giving food discount instead of wood, to synergize with the cavalry production
If devs actually want to Nerf mayans, they have like a bazilion ways to do that. The fact states that they do not seem to be willing to do so, they are fine the way the mayans are apparently.
It would be fine if devs would be willing to being all civs up to par with the top dogs, but that seem to not be the case either
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I think developers lack any geography skills. Since when did Sicilians were in W. Europe?! S. Europe, yes. Also, what’s the point of Europe map if all civs belong now to either E. or W.?
Its only for DLC campaigns. Its easy to block whole pages from those who dont have dlc than hiding or not giving access to particular campaign. So if you have it page is open else closed
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Ok. I have all the DLCs. It’s still confusing why Sicilians should be called West campaigns while Italians (Sforza and Bari) should remain on Europe map. Also, won’t it be better to just move El Cid, Joan of Arc, and William Wallace to the West campaigns map instead of keeping them on Europe map? I hope you understand my issue…
Once upon a time people played Huns all the time on Arabia because their CA was much cheaper. When DE released almost everyone played Cumans even though they were brand new.
these are LEL reasons. No one at 1700+ elo plays ranked games with a civ for their architecture. Spanish and Franks have the same architecture but their play rates are hugely different on different maps. It just shows that people pick civs based on the strength of the civs for those maps.
The top level player knows the game well and everytime there’s a game impacting patch, their tier list gets updated.
It exactly does justify. Every civ is supposed to have it’s strength and weaknesses and can’t be universally powerful on almost all settings. Civs which are too weak on most settings need a buff and civs which are too strong on most settings need a nerf. That’s exactly why balance changes exist.
In top tournaments, every player picks the best civs to WIN the tournament. So if Mayans and Persians had a lower win rate it’s probably because they lost to Vikings, Aztecs and Franks. But the fact they were one of the top 10 picked civs implies that most of the top 16 players in the world wanted to pick them before their opponent did.
After this tournament, Persians lost their dark age bonus and were almost never seen in any tournament till WWC.
I don’t have any role in this conversation, but I just want to clarify:
This is no longer the case. When DE released, the Spanish architecture was changed to Mediterranean.
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Well since X century when they settled in normandy. Sicilians are basically normans who conquered sicily and south Italy, but they still are culturally closer to french than actual italians
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Everything before DE comes free with DE you dont need to buy separate dlc for these
Lol, true I didn’t even notice that. Who cares about the architecture man.
The point? Eventually everybody will have every DLC and it will be a mess.