When will Spahi be obtained from stable in Ottoman civilization?
Ottoman civilization should now be able to get Spahi from stable even if it is a certain amount. Ottoman civilization should be able to make a minimum of 5 Spahi and a maximum of 15 Spahi from stable, or Ottoman civilization should be able to produce an unlimited number of Spahi from stable. In this way, Ottoman civilization can become a more balanced and more entertaining civilization, especially for treaty games.
Never. Why are you asking?
They buff Otts on every patch. I can’t blame him for upping the ante
Lol I think that’d be a step too far, you’ve already got trainable nizams now IIRC.
I’ve been a vocal enthusiast for otto buffs in the past, but enough is enough.
The big rework ended up with Ottos having the best musk type in either nizams or jans, top tier skirm type, a damn solid huss variant (even post nerf), an actually relevant grenadier, an the best anti light cav ever in the azap. Now we have 6 pop bombards and 20 range azaps.
Personally I would have settled with shoring up big weaknesses - like a real early pike unit and a better late skirm unit and thats really it. The major rework had me feeling downright spoiled. Guess the devs be compensating for lost time or whatever. Either way, every part of Ottos is strong and nothing needs a buff.
If they cost 600 food each then it is acceptable
Nice Sarcasm.
Indeed having Azap (a pike unit with anti-goon abilities) and finally getting a 3rd advanced mosque tech is all we could have hoped for but we got a little more but it doesn’t feel like too much.
The re-work was good for almost all civs but ottoman benifited the most since they were lagging behind a bit.
Shame they totally botched sweden by turning a perfectly interesting and balanced unit into an OP dragoon when they didn’t need dragoons, and then nerfing them to uselessness.
Shame they totally botched sweden by turning a perfectly interesting and balanced unit into an OP dragoon when they didn’t need dragoons, and then nerfing them to uselessness.
Thats a big part of why I’m against any more otto buffs - some things are on the verge of being too strong and the usual reaction is getting nerfed to shit for years till the next rework. It’d suck in a major way if the ottos were strong for all of a few months then back to the shadow realm for another 5 years.
Even if they do make them available, they’d be a pretty nerfed version of it, and that would be a shame
It doesn’t have to be nerfed. Currently the hidden cost is 400 res each, despite only giving 28xp.
If anything Ottomans could use a nerf right now.
Eh, thats … eh.
Theyre wierdly strong sure, but the legacy civs are getiing more and more content and they arent too far out of the park by that metric.
I expect more updates for american, asain, and african civs coming up. Mercs and natives too. Devs have been generous lately and for the sake of trying to future proof, Id be against a to nerf anything that isnt Deli/Hakka/Feitoria level of bs.
Come on. Who cares if garbage azaps have a 20 or even 30 range? No one uses them, I mean ‘‘no one’’. Or Great Bombards have 6 pop after the unique church card. This has been done for treaty games which won’t affect any 1v1 SP games.
After the Otto rework, they are constantly getting nerfs, and if you really want to read them all at once, I can list them one by one. The buffs they get are only niche stuff that doesn’t affect or hardly affect any 1v1 games.
Dont get me wrong tho, Trainable sipahi is a NO for me, too.
I still don’t get that why flying crow is 7 pop while theoretically costs 600 res? And being a trash artillery too. And why flamethrower costing 340 res is 4 pop not 3 pop?
Azaps as a concept are pretty strong - decent heavy cav counter and best light cav counter. They got their first nerf for being a pikeman unit that was trading well with musketeers. Post nerf, I havent had an issue with howdahs, ww, ruyters and those in monocomp were pretty tough for Ottos to deal with.
This may patch, we have -40% train time on the age 2 all in, expanded the infantry cost reduction to all Otto inf in age 4, another dps upgrade via flight archery, cost rebalance to being more food heavy. Thats only the ones relevant to the azap specifically.
The only hurdles to using azaps early were a lack of shipments early which made getting a mass of azaps too slow for aggression and later on there wasnt much of need for them since the new abus were hot shit. The added shipments make it pretty easy to go into azaps and once in its pretty attractive to stick with azaps and just add cannons.
List of them nerfs, maybe I missed something.
Azap’s concept is awesome. I agree with you. However, with this wobbly ranged animation, the ranged attack is useless till you get the flight archery card from the HC. This wobbly animation is okay if you have long-range like a British longbow or a very high attack like the Japanese Yumi Archer. When you combine 6 attack with 16 range together with this animation, you stand no chance.
I liked to use them as pure pikemen units against melee cavalry but when they changed their Melee resistance to Ranged resistance, it harmed the unit’s pikeman identity. I wish that devs can do something about that and add melee resistance together with ranged or they can change armor try by their stance.
Age 2 40% train time card is added purely for Treaty games and although it looks like a buff, it is a nerf, especially for 1v1 SP. It’s because the backbone of the Ottoman military is Janissary in the game. 70% to 80%, your army consists of Janissaries and they had a super-efficient SINGLE card which decreased their cost and training time at the same time. This card also included cost and training benefits for Nizam Fusiliers if you were to unlock them via the unique church card. Now you need to send 2 CARDS for it.
Also, Engineering School nerf absolutely hits Ottomans more than others because as an artillery-oriented civ if you wanted to focus on artillery, you could have solved it by one card which includes Abus Gunner, Humbaraci, and cannons. now again, the opportunity is taken away from the Ottomans.
Azaps cards are nice to have but as a civ. that suffers from a slow economy, I do not think that Ottomans have the luxury to send Azap cards. Especially at the early game. And again. if their 20% RR switch to 20% MR when switching to the Melee Stance, it might work with cannons, though I would still prefer janissaries.
Regarding the Nerfs;
Azaps
Deli
Humbaraci
Abus Gunner
→ Age 2 HP card from Abus and Humbaraci from 25% to 20%
Although I agree with some nerfs as Delis and some I do not, I really don’t understand if people still whine about Ottomans. They are purposely nerfed especially for 1v1 games and I believe that they have had enough of it, even more than enough at some places.
The Japanese pikemen unit (I think it’s called yamabushi) also has range resistance, but at any rate Azaps are ranged units and don’t have cover stance
Japanese don’t have a pikeman unit…Not at least at their main roster. If you talk about Yamabushi which is trained via the consulate, then it is a pikeman unit with a club 
Their stats are far superior like 9 x 5 anti-cav and 140 HP.
Azap is a unique unit, so it might make sense them to have the double type of armor or an armor type change like the Italian Pavisier.
Ye, looks like we’re seeing the same thing. Now:
This wobbly animation is okay if you have long-range like a British longbow or a very high attack like the Japanese Yumi Archer. When you combine 6 attack with 16 range together with this animation, you stand no chance.
The azap is not an archer. The ranged attack isnt something for it to challenge actual ranged infantry as a whole, let alone light infantry - the whole point of that is the very high multiplier vs ranged cav. Dont compare it to yumis/longbows or even xbow, compare it to pikes - then what about the lack of kiting? Pikes cant shoot ranged cav at all where azaps make the likes of ERK/Howdah/WW/yabusame irrelevant. Basic pikes have an extra 10 hp and a base of 10% melee resist. While losing a whole 20% is big for fighting cuirassiers, by normal pike standards they’re only slightly below the norm. Then there’s the extra 10 res and we’ve covered all the negatives.
The positives are that they counter ranged cav harder than yumi (by nearly double) and still hit cav as hard as imperial tercios. The ranged resist is also a net gain - at some point you get cav archers to deal with heavy cav, but y’know they can trade in even numbers with ERK’s with that ranged resist right? With the latest nerfs to ERK they win easily in even pop - forget archers, musketeers cant do that. I’ve done cav archer/azap/cannon only on occasions and was beating pre nerf Hakkapelits. They hit cav alot harder than jans at all ages - there was a big problem with strong cav civs (lakota/german) rolling over jans early on since musk-types need socket bayonet to do real work there. Jans also had the issue (like musks) that they ue their ranged attack on cav running at artillery and cost you the expensive cannons - Azaps actually go and snare down nearby cav. Its a similar case as to where civs with both pikes and musk use pike as cannon guards. Give credit where due, dude - this unit is the most legit late game pike unit that costs 1 popsace.
Age 2 40% train time card is added purely for Treaty games and although it looks like a buff, it is a nerf, especially for 1v1 SP. It’s because the backbone of the Ottoman military is Janissary in the game. 70% to 80%, your army consists of Janissaries and they had a super-efficient SINGLE card which decreased their cost and training time at the same time. This card also included cost and training benefits for Nizam Fusiliers if you were to unlock them via the unique church card. Now you need to send 2 CARDS for it.
The janissary game peaks in age 2. The super efficient card is in age 4. The new trainspeed card is in age 2…Bruh. Beyond that, these new cards are both way more efficient than the last one. Trainspeed for ALL inf. Cost reduction for ALL inf. Engineering school got no recent nerfs for Ottos - the new trainspeed cards helps humba and abus too btw.
Regarding the Nerfs;
Alright, thats what looking at then. I’ll add some things from my end.
Azaps
Loss:
Gain:
Beats all other legacy pikemen. Better than jans vs hand cav. Better than anything vs light cav analogues.
Deli
Loss:
Gain:
About 2% less hp, for 1% more dps and a bit more speed - its an interesting huss redesign. Net zero sum. if the LI vs heavy cav matters for abus guns it matters as a bonus here. 10% melee resist is meh on an age 4 card, but great as a tech.
Cavalry Archer
Gain:
Nothing but gains here, age 3/4 all cav strat just got alot.
Humbaraci
Loss:
Gain:
Overall loss of 11 maximum hp, cheaper by 37 res, 15 sec less train time and now does 2 jans worth of siege damage so its useful in a rush again. Beats all other grens, doesn’t need grenade launcher, counters 2 falconet shipments.
Abus Gunner
Loss:
Gain:
Cost cut down from 150 res to 135 after new cost reduction card. 25% rr reverted to pre rework of 20. +25% hp reverted to 20% hp. Main complaint of lategame dps still resolved. Currently the best skirm type vs light cav among legacy civs
Overall dude Ottos got the best pike, best musk, best heavy cav, second best heavy artillery, top 3 skirm and huss type among legacy civs, and upgrades to all cannons. The end result is a civ with generally stronger units as a baseline than the other legacy civs at the cost of a wonky eco. It used to be an awkward eco and 2 valid strats on an otherwise weak civ. Life is good as heck as Ottos right now, and frankly the nerfs were due cuz they veeeeery clearly overpacked the civ in the initial rework.
trainable spahis lol with a amount of 15 from stable 