Just make a ports civ and jap civ and play teams. 
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Spanier, die fehlen, gerade wegen der Kampagne, England, Römisches Reich, Frankreich… Ich glaub Spanien hat da auch mitgemischt.
Of course I understood Rus’ was a civ.
I was talking about the gameplay. I dont see any link between the rus and the vikings tactics or troops.
I’m totally disagree on what you said about the French. 800 and Charlemagne is about Franks, not French. French began after 10 century because at this time it was Hugue Capet the king of the Franks.
Secondly, there is no heavy infantery in the game for France. Which was the most emblematic unit. They stop the Moors cavalry in Poitier thanks to them.
They chose cavalry because its a cliché. You are talking about an elite troops of nobles guys. English cavalry was as perform as french at this period.
Devs use clichés because its working. Players can easily navigate with the concepts.
Ordinary people think with clichés. If we talk to them about Egypt, they think first of the Pharaohs. We talk to them about chivalry, they think of a tournament or a guy who kneels in front of a king with a sword. We talk to them about the Arabs, they think of the desert, of a guy on a camel, and not of guys on ships. We talk to them about Vikings, they think of 2m monsters who disembark from longships with axes and kill everyone. It’s like that. We are not in a world of historians. You do not understand at all that this game is an industry, and that if they put China, India and Russia in the game, it is because these three countries total three billion one hundred and fifty thousand people.
If the Spaniards come, it will only be with the cliché of the conquistador. Obviously they will come if the Aztevs come. But a faction like Astruria or Pamplona you can forget, that will never happen.
Hugues Capet was the first French king while they were others before him, and most importantly:
You say:
- That the Franks had nothing to do with France
- That the french infantery stopped the moors at poitiers.
BUT, it was Charlemagne, Emperor of the Franks, who fought the moors at Poiters.
Next: Cavalery in France is not a cliché, they had a great cavalery tradition.
And again, they aren’t basing on clichés, you’re saying clichés that doesn’t applies to Age IV. Like, the abassids are one of the few civs with real naval bonuses. So, if “people thinks of a guy on a camel and not of guys on ship”, why would they put naval bonuses ?
And more importantly: Why would they do anything that is outside the clichés ? Like, staying on the abassids, why add the House of Wisdom ? It doesn’t apply to the cliché of medieval saraccens.
EDIT: And, if they put civs because they are populous and important, why the mongols rather than, well, Spain ?
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It wasn’t Charlemagne at Poitiers, it was his grandfather Charles Martel and he was officially maire du palais, not king. Just a technicallity, since it gives even more weight to your argument.
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No, look there Hugh Capet - Wikipedia
Hugue Capet is the King of the Franks, not of the French. Of course there is a link, but Franks are not exactly French. Franks are germanics people elite.
Charlemagne didnt stop the Moors in Poitier. It was Charles Martel and he did this with swordmens
France have a cavalry tradition, but England too.Thinking France is the top cavalry is a cliché. Also nowadays, germans have a strong cavalry history and the best skill in horses olympic game or domestication in history. You can see this on wikipedia,
They put a pv bonus for Abassid, but this faction is really not the best on the sea. Others faction have a strong bonus like the France who dominate the naval maps. I guess its only to equilibrate.
The Mongols, I personaly think they added them for four reasons :
First, because like the Vikings they are very popular in the common culture with Gengis Khan.They are very popular in occident as the Mongol Periple. Thousand of horsmens surgering from the far steppes to destroy every thing until the West.
Second, because they have a high customer potential. East Asia is nearly 4 billions people who can identificate themselve to this faction.
Third, because they are extremly important in the middle age history. They destroyed the Abassid reign and push until Ostria begining a serious threat for Europe. Every people in Europe know them as barbarics hordes.
Four, because their gameplay based on hit and run, raids, nomadism is very original and exciting.
If you compare with the christian spain before the reconquista, these four point are quite empty. They are unknown, spainish are fiew, the majority hispanic community is latino and they want meso america civ, then their gameplay wont be so original.
As much as I would prefer Portugal over Spain, I gotta say something. Conquistadors and Armadas are very well known in the pop culture. Maybe so much more than Mongols. Vikings need less shows and games, it’s getting a bit too much.
4 billion? Seems like the totality of the asian continent population. Well that’s sorts the issue of adding more Asian civs, I’m sure everyone will be happy.
Developers make the gameplay, I’m sure they can make something original and exciting for other factions. Moot point.
(Quoting myself, kinky I know)
Seems pretty important. The fact that you dont know it does not make it less so.
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I would like to see:
VIKINGS
OTTOMAN EMPIRE
SPAIN
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I ever said if Spain come it will be 1492 Spain with fleet power and Conquistador units.
The most represented ethnicy in earth is the asian people type like Vietnam, China, Corea, Thai etc. They can recognize themselve more easly in Mongols than a sweden guy can do. On the most played MMORPG WoW why do you think they made an extension about Pandaren with Asian style and sounds in 2012 ?
Yes they can do something original for every thing. But Spain is unknow before the Reconquista/Conquest of America. You guys will see. Spagna before, wont never come. Spagna 1492 will come maybe,
The model of devs is Age of Empire 2. In Age of Empire 2, the Spain civ is about Conquest of America -Missionary unit
-Conquistador unit
-Inquisition technology
That this Spain you are going to see. Not the Astrurie, Pampelune or Aragon. And your citation is about 1492 Spain, so exactly what i’m saying.
Again, cool we dont need any more Asian civs then. Mongols are already in game, I’m sure they cover easily all asian factions. (This is sarcasm btw).
A guy from Sweden will prefer Vikings (despite being off the timeline for the game at the moment)
A guy from Japan will prefer Japanese, probably not mongols.
Dont see what pandoreans or whatever have to do with the discussion.
Asian is a big Market, so is Europe, Latin America. Probably a guy from latin america would play Spanish instead of Mongols following your argument logic.
Spain, de facto, started in 1479,(if that’s what you mean by unknown) which is true, they come a bit late to the timeline (hence why the Portuguese, despite my bias, would be a better choice.) But that does not invalidate some gameplay mechanic where you start with Leon, or Castille or Aragon and get some new age up mechanic, kinda like the new nomads mechanics for the Mongols was made.
Reconquista Iberia is a fascinating time to read about and I would recommend catching up on it.
Since everyone (I assume) knows about Templars, did you know they continued to exist in Portugal as the Order of Christ and that the Templars were founded around 1118 settling in Portugal at least since 1122, in the region of Braga, where the Order received successive donations and where they also bought lands. This occurred only two or three years after their foundation in Jerusalem, and about 7 years before their recognition and confirmation in the Council of Troyes?
See fun, interesting stuff.
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If you dont understand the link between pandarens and the discussion I understand why you dont understand the marketing in 2021 WoW: Mists of Pandaria Gets Approved for Chinese Release | Tom's Hardware
I dont know what you are talking about with nomad mechanic for Spain. Nobody know the Spain like that. I dont know which reference you are talking about Aragon and Leon. Thats to much detail. for a synthetis civ with only 2 or 3 max originals units.
The Templars is fascinating but it’s a French order originaly, so I dont think they will put it with a Spanish faction. People wont understand.
If Spagna come it wil be with the conquistador guy and Inquisition unit which every people know.
Indeed, and, also, saying it is more interesting to have asian civs than others because there are 4 billions people in asia is forgetting a lot of things like: Yeah, Asia is populated, but, how many of these 4 billions people could buy the game ? India is the second most populous country in the world, but it is also under extreme poverty.
Next, yeah, I would expect more of a Leon-based spanish civ.
And finally: Yes, a Reconquista campaign would be incredible ! Probably ending with Grenada and the formation of the kingdom of spain
Alright, I think you don’t understand what we’re trying to say, so I’ll say it one last time, and if you don’t want to accept any arguments that we’ve made so far, then the debate is closed.
The thing is, again: The developpers aren’t making this game based on stereotypes and clichés. There are already plenty of clues that they aren’t, even with the small number on civilisations we have now.
You don’t have to give an order to guide the debate, you are just a forumer.
You got pretty much wrong about all your historical references on this page, you should play it a little more humble.
You are still wrong in showing your ignorance on marketing and the extremely important share of Asia in the market. Gaming market in Asia - statistics & facts | Statista
In an industry predicted to be worth more than 178 billion U.S. dollars by 2021, the Asia Pacific region was a top contender for years. With the number of video gamers approaching three billion globally, Asia Pacific is responsible for over half of it. Within the Asia Pacific region, China, Japan, and South Korea lead the gaming markets.
Obviously you don’t know the question very well, in addition to not knowing the story very well.
You gave no argument to show that devs don’t play on stereotypes. You didn’t answer anything on my examples and when you answered you confused Charlemagne and Charles Martel, and the French and the Franks.
Saying “I think you don’t understand what we are saying” is not enough if behind it there is no argument and only false historical references.
Fine, first: The debate is closed because it is impossible to debate with someone you don’t want to.
Next: Here some proofs.
French cavalery:
https://www.stronghold-nation.com/history/ref/grench-gendarme-heavy-cavalry
Frankish Empire and French Kingdom:
Next: If you want to say that there are no proofs that the devs made an historically based game, then go check your Age IV game again, you’ve missed something, like, the campaigns, the civ’s mastering given stories, the explanations given, and, if it doesn’t satisfy you, there are plenty of things put on the websites both main AoE website and forums.
Mate I dont care about WoW and your marketing statistics, you keep bringing that up as a straw man.
I never mentioned a nomad mechanic for Spain, read my post properly.
The Templars were founded in Jerusalem not France, and are closely tied with the Reconquista and subsequent age of discovery trough the Order of Christ.
I’m not debating spain unique units, just your argument that nobody knows them.
But hit me with the pandas one more time to prove people play games on asia and like pandas. Nothing to do with Mongols.
Trying to use all of asia to justify 1 civ is the same as me saying that all of Europe wants Vikings. Its misleading.
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Dude your links have no consistency with what you say.
There is no equivalent to your Gendarmes link on the french wiki. I never heard of a “Gendarmes” unit during the Middle Ages. It is a term that appears in the 17th-18th century. It is especially that your wiki on the Gendarme is nonexistent in French, look for yourself, there is no French page.
And in addition, this unit that I have never heard of during middle age, concerns the 16th century. It’s written on the page you link to. So we are out of the middle ages. It is rebirth.
In the page Gendarmes in French wiki, about the police corps, the origin of the word is :
Le mot gendarme vient de l’ancien français « gens d’armes », les hommes d’armes. De la fin du Moyen Âge au début de l’époque moderne, le terme désigne une troupe d’élite de cavaliers fortement armés, de noble naissance, servant dans l’armée française. Cette troupe disparaît à la fin du XVIIIe siècle pour des raisons d’économie1.
Translation
The word gendarme comes from the old French “people of arms”, the men of arms. From the end of the [Middle Ages] (Moyen Âge — Wikipédia) to the beginning of modern times, the term refers to an elite troop of heavily armed horsemen, of noble birth, serving in the French army. This troop disappeared at the end of the 18th century for reasons of economy [1] (Gendarmerie — Wikipédia).
These guy appear in the late middle age and the begining of the modern time/Rennaissance. Well.
The Norman campagn is in 1066. In 1066 Norman/French dont use cavalry as principal unit. But devs chose cavalry as principal unit for France. They did a mixt between 8 century to 16 century to make a French civ. This is what I call stereotypical synthesis. I’m not against this process i’m agree with, but thats factual they did it. And “People of arms” I guess you can see how stereotypical is the gameplay with the infantery common unit “Man of arms”.
Secondo, do you realize the link you call “source”?
A forum with a random guy giving his opinion to another random guy? Is that a study? : Find me a scientific / historical study that validates that the French cavalry was the best in Europe at this time.
You then cited three links. Why ? How are these links arguments? Your link on Tour Battle explains that it was Charles Martel the king of the Franks who defeated Abd Al Rahman with his swordsmens, where you said it was the Charlemagne and French with their cavalry.
I did not say that the campaigns were made on stereotypes. The campaigns are fairly well documented. But the gameplay, which is primarily multiplayer, is stereotypical. Because to make factions that are original in the gameplay, knowing that they will not be numerous, we must distinguish them from each other with obvious markers for the players.
Mate I dont care about WoW and your marketing statistics, you keep bringing that up as a straw man.
But hit me with the pandas one more time to prove people play games on asia and like pandas. Nothing to do with Mongols.
If you dont understand with examples, like pandas, I recommend you theoric fact
Ok, read this : In an industry predicted to be worth more than 178 billion U.S. dollars by 2021, the Asia Pacific region was a top contender for years. With the number of video gamers approaching three billion globally, Asia Pacific is responsible for over half of it. Within the Asia Pacific region, China, Japan, and South Korea lead the gaming markets.
Maybe you understand now why there is two Asian pacific civ for the launch. In addition to the three other points that put forward
The Templars were founded in Jerusalem not France, and are closely tied with the Reconquista and subsequent age of discovery trough the Order of Christ.
No, Templars where found in France, in Troye particulary, and by the French Hugue de Payns Ordre du Temple — Wikipédia
Secondo, Templars diseaper in 1312. They were never in America or active during the Age of Discory because they were dead after the Concile de Vienne. Their activity in Spain is minor. They were active in Holy Land. Nobody know they were a little there during Reconquista, only spanish people because its their history and they care about it;
It’s incredible. You have just noticed that in the launch there are three civilizations in Europe and 5 in Asia. 4 if we restrict the Arabs to the Middle East. 3 if we are based only on the Pacific Asia which totals half of the video game market as my link explains.
In fact, you are not informed. You give your personal opinions without any knowledge of marketing or development in 2021. And we notice it.
Dude… yes asia is a large market. There are 48 countries in Asia. I doubt that for the Majority of then Mongols would be the first choice. Get it?
Templars were founded in Jerusalem by 9 knights. A few french a couple of origin unknown.
In 1119, the French knight Hugues de Payens approached King Baldwin II of Jerusalem and Warmund, Patriarch of Jerusalem, and proposed creating a monastic order for the protection of these pilgrims. King Baldwin and Patriarch Warmund agreed to the request, probably at the Council of Nablus in January 1120, and the king granted the Templars a headquarters in a wing of the royal palace on the Temple Mount in the captured Al-Aqsa Mosque.
A bit far away from France that.
Across Europe they stopped existing except in Portugal where they became the Order of Christ. Read the link I provided you previously. Not hard to follow. And Henry the Navigator became the leader of the Order, you know the dude that kickstarted the age of Discovery.
The order’s origins lie in the Knights Templar, founded circa 1118. The Templars were persecuted by the king of France and eventually disbanded by the pope in 1312. King Dinis I of Portugal created the Order of Christ in 1319 for those knights who survived their mass slaughter throughout Europe.[6] In Portugal, the Order of Christ accumulated great riches and power during the Age of Discoveries.
Again you show your ignorance by saying their activity was minimal in Iberia.
You dont know they were involved in the Reconquista with the Hospitalliers, and several Iberian orders, and their activity was fundamental
for the Reconquista.
You not knowing about a subject does not make it unknown or less important, it means you have something else to learn.
I’m not challenging the amount of factions, if anything the more the merrier, Europe, Middle East Asia.
It seems to me you are the one that does not know anything, or refuses to know. But that’s your problem not mine.
Im done with you and this subject. Educate yourself.
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- Please, stay civil. Even if I am tired, I still is, maybe not sweet, but polite. I see you are getting slowly insultant. Please, stay civil.
- Si tu veux partir sur des précisions en français, à moins que tu ne sois toi-même français, ce dont je doute parce que sinon nous n’aurions pas cette discussion, tu t’engage sur un terrain sur lequel tu ne peux pas gagner, car, de nous deux, quelqu’un ayant le français pour langue maternelle comme moi aura bien plus de facilité à invalider tes arguments, si arguments il y a.
- You are escaping the question on the Franks. You are pointing out a detail that actually doesn’t help you at all to escape the fact that one of your few arguments was wrong. → The french and the franks have nothing in common + The french fought at Poitiers with heavy infantery
While it was the Franks. - As it is explained in the articles: the gendarmes were indeed a late middle ages elite unit so first, it applies to age of empires IV. And, next AoE team already did researches on the subject, and talked about it on their website
- Okay, you don’t like my sources, and I don’t like y… Oh wait, I cannot say anything on sources that you never came up with.
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