Which civs would you like to see added first in DLC?

[SenjinKira]

You should segment your post based on Age. So that people can see how the civ would play in each age and the unique units/tech they would get.
Kind of hard to visualize a civ when it’s just a large list that doesn’t seem to mesh together. ANd try and keep it relatively simple. Too many ideas and unique tech/units is bad.

I like some of the ideas, but it’s kind of all over the place.

Like.
Unique Mechanic

• • Town Center continuously spawns villagers, slower at first, but can pick up speed with Mosque improvements. This allows players to focus on analyzing the map early in the game in order to devise a geographic strategy to switch from nomadic civ to settled civ in Age 2 or in Age 3 (as explained in Hybrid concept above), or perhaps launch small raids.
• • Monopoly bonus: the Turks controlled the Silk Road ten times longer than the short-lived Mongols and ended AoE 4 as the world’s paramount superpower. When a Turkish player slays a Trader, he receives the amount of gold profit the Trader was carrying.

Dark Age

• • Hybrid Concept: the Turks civ starts off nomadic (all buildings mobile), but must totally transform into settled civ in either Age 2 or Age 3, depending on choice of landmark and macro strategy pathway. The number of possible gameplay paths and strategies is enormous, a dramatic transformation of Age of Empires civ concept (for architecture evolution, see all-civs Architecture Topic).

Feudal Age

• • Raiding Party unique tech: cav archers can torch buildings in Age 2.
• • Mehter (oldest army band in the world, either a unit or temporary boost?) boosts troop speed and attack with energizing, inspiring powerful music (see videos of Mehter on the Turkish civ Topic).
• • Rulers of the Mediterranean unique tech: can build Ottoman Galleys and Barbary Corsairs faster. We should note the Ottoman Empire was the only AoE4-time civ on Earth to achieve superpower status both on land and the sea. Even China did not achieve that.

Castle Age

• • Devshirme Age 3 Unique Tech: Janissary spawns each time an enemy villager is slayed, to model the one-and-only Ottoman recruitment system.
• • Tolerance unique tech: reflecting world-unique Ottoman acceptance of all ethnicities and religions in the medieval Empire, Imams can convert individual villagers without a relic.
• • The Siege Workshop is called Cannon Foundry, all Ottoman gunpowder artillery is built faster.

Imperial Age

• • The Tophane (“Imperial Bombard Yard”), the world’s largest cannon foundry from 1468 in Istanbul, is an Age 4 landmark to produce Imperial Bombards with extra HP (see all-civs Architecture Topic).
• • Janissary has hand cannon in Age 3, Imperial Janissary has the revolutionary matchlock musket (invented in Turkey in 1465 and totally changed the world) in Age 4.
• • Has the colossal Blue Mosque as the Wonder (see all-civs Architecture Topic).

I don’t think the whole hybrid nomad thing would be a good thing. I would just start off like a regular civ. Cause that would kind of steal the thunder of mongols. Maybe if they give that mechanic to other nomadic civs, Then I can see that being added. But I don’t like that mechanic as a player, so I would prefer just a regular start

All the other ideas I actually really like. Maybe save the raider mechanic for a northern African Civ like Tunis or Morocco, same with the barbary pirates.

[Vinifrss]

Some superb suggestions @SenjinKira , I’m going to reorganize the compilation asap.

[VicKestrel]

I like this gonna make one for my Portugal suggestion.

[VicKestrel]

Portugal:

Civs Bonus
Can fortify trade posts from the castle age (feitorias)
Gains more x% resources from trade posts

Dark Age:
Start with Fortified Town Center (More expensive to build )
Starts with a Noble Knight as a leader (buffs Militia, can be upgraded at Castle age to Condestavel where it buffs the barracks units, and stops buffing militia.

Cant Build Barracks untill Castle Age.
Fortified Town Center Trains Crossbow and Spear Militia cheaper/weaker

First Landmark Castle of Guimaraes.

Feudal:
Can Build Holy Order building, for Example Order of Christ, where it Trains expensive Men at Arms and Heavy Knights.
Conto Crossbowmen tech (Improves Militia Crossbowmen)
Can train Cavaleiros Viloes (medium cav) and Ginetes from stables.

Convent of Christ as Land mark.

Castle Age:

Can now build barracks
Caravel unique unit
Leader can mount/dismount horse
Horse “stance” buffs cav, dismount “stance” buff infantry.

Monastery of Battle (land based bonus) or Tower of Belem (sea based bonus)

Imperial Age
Grand Carrack unique unit São João Baptista (galleon) - Wikipedia
Espingardeiros (handgunners)
Royal Halberdiers
Adventurers (heavy infantry with Montantes)

In short first 2 ages focus on the Reconquista and wars against neighbouring Castille.
In these wars, frontier townspeople had a high degree of preparation and often formed the bulk of the armies during summer months.
Military Orders also contributed for the conquest and defence of the land.

From castle age it focus on trade bonuses and professional men at arms representing the start of the Portuguese Expansion into North Africa and the rest of the world.
It focus on Naval and Gunpowder tech, with elite Royal Halberdiers trained by Portuguese Veterans of the Italian Wars (and formed the bulk of Afonso Albuquerque Ordenancas in his Asian Conquests)
Heavily Armored Nobles (Adventurers) armed with Montantes can be an expensive elite aswell.

Why the mount dismount for the leader?
With the change of infantry tactics (from the swiss and italian wars) and campaigns overseas that often included disembarking from boats where horses weren’t used, having the option to mount /dismount a port player can adapt they warfare style as they historically did across the globe, representing their legacy of first contacts from west africa to japan.

de Brito, P. (2008). Knights, Squires and Foot Soldiers in Portugal during the Sixteenth-Century Military Revolution. Mediterranean Studies, 17, 118–147. http://www.jstor.org/stable/41167395

As a mounted leader it can use a Lance/Spear and as in foot can use the montante.

Just a quick thrown together suggestion.

[Druidsbrook]

I’d like to see samurai implemented not as a single unit but Japan can recruit a limited number of samurai versions of generic units like spearmen or horse archers. Otherwise they have to use weaker light troop versions. Landmarks and keeps could increase the cap.

The samurai pool could be shared so you could choose how you want to distribute them.

I think that would be better than just a single samurai unit with a sword.

[WhiteWolf935]

Really looking forward to the future DLCS.
I just hope they make sure to make unique mechanics and remember to attach the cultural cornerstones for each civilization in.

Like Norse’s economy was reliant og thralls and trade (vikings traded, more than they raided InFact) building up a economy which get stronger as a result of raiding the enemy.

Other cornerstones for other civilizations should be added based on the more unique actions.
I remember for instance that the romans learned from the Iberians tribes about the standard of having javelins for your infantry.

So Iberians could give ranged attack on CD, for their meele infantry.
For Japanese, they should have powerful samurais, as elite infantry… while the rest is fodder-units… weaker but enmassed… empowered by the Samurai units.

[Spyken1]

If you look at picture

You can see that arrows were able to reach canon and wooden baricade was build to protect siege enginear.

Maybe give more range to archer on wall or lower range of bombard, to make it historicaly acurate and mor fun.

[WhiteWolf935]

Bows went surprisingly far, especially from a elevated position and volley firing… even if inaccurate… but with sieges … you just generally needed to fire away in the right direction.

So you’re likely right in this… also would be for decent balance…

I’d say ranged units on wall should get a significant range boost.

[macker33]

My ancestors were gallowglass, we arent norse.

Scottish and irish celts were from spain, and before that greek via egypt, and before that from the pontiac step.
The german celts you talk about settled in wales and a couple of other places, but not scotland and ireland.

[timtsilo]

gallowglass were famous norse-gaelic clan (like I said, norse were assihimilated with local poeple as often, so a mix of cultures, like in england).it’s like, the first thing we know about them. There is text and sources about that. Why should I just believe a comment.

I mean, it’s not just about wales… even robert de bruce had more germanic roots than celtic ones.
Poeple mix, there are not only pure lineages

[macker33]

I seen some of those text sources but people who buy into that are looking at the wrong thing.
If you want to know who the gallowglass were look at their family names.

[YouGotTurked721]

Basil the 2nd Campaign!

[timtsilo]

family names is the worst argument ever. Large group of poeple adopted the names in the culture they were assihimilated (by marriage with clans for exemple) or the naming of the dominating culture of the area. Norse are famous for easily adoptiing the cultures of the others and being asshimilated, to gain lead, claims, control, prestige, etc… They adopted frankish cultures, names and traditions as Normans, they adopted slavic cultures, names, and traditions as Rus’.

I Just looked to Irish and Scottish sources and journals. Even Scottish journals published about the diversity of scotland DNA. A bunch of clans with gallowglass and gaelic names were from norse area for exemple and travelled into Ireland in the norman area. And using scandinavian weaponary like their axes and fight mastery. they just were adopted by marriage into the clans.

There are multiple DNA map, where we can see the core of scotland being from scots and picts dna. Large zone on the north being scandinavian, east norse-gaelic, south angles and britons. + all the other movement of populations and assihimilation through times

But you can stay into modern nationalistic revisionism of pure celtic lineage from the east european steppe because your name sound in a certain weapon. When scottish scientists are always currently studying the diversity of the rich History of scotland.

[Kamprrrrr]

None. In first DLC i want to have +4 campaigns for existing civilzations. If this game has more civs it will die in multiplayer. You cannont have balanced game with to many asymetrical civilizations. Thats the reason why Starcraft never added new race.

[Jonasnee8581]

the factions so far really aren’t that asymmetric, even by AOE standards.

[Kamprrrrr]

They are by economy, technology. Sure, there are core units like Archer, Knight, but still there is many factors to balance (landmarks, unique economy mechanics like scholars or dynasties)

Comparing to AoE2 civs are very asymmetric. Comparing to AoE3 they aren’t. But in Vanilla AoE3 differences weren’t so big. Adding Native Americans civilizations with unique mechanics, then Asian Civs with their mechanics maid game more complicated and harder to Balance. If AoE4 wants to be Esport Game they shouldn’t destroying ballance every year by adding fractions. But the question is AoE4 wants to be esport game.

[Vinifrss]

@Kamprrrrr

None. In first DLC i want to have +4 campaigns for existing civilzations

Campaigns for Delhi, Abbasids, Chinese would be great!

But if this is genuinely Age of Empires, how can it not have the Ottoman Empire, the world’s greatest empire in the last 300 years of the game? How can it not have the Byzantine Empire, the longest existing empire, that dominated the early centuries of AoE4?

If they can balance 8 civs, they can balance 16. Overall balance is what matters first and foremost, not specific-civ-pair quirky issues of 1vs1 matches. AoE2 has forty civs.

[Jonasnee8581]

your average faction in base AOE had 2-5 unique units, 1 unique eco bonus, and an entire deck. by comparison AOE 4 faction look pretty similar, sure there are landmarks but eh, units from china and Europe litterally share stats for reasons i dont understand.

as far as balance in AOE3 is concerned then its fine, most factions are competitive both early and late now.

@Kamprrrrr

If AoE4 wants to be Esport Game they shouldn’t destroying ballance every year by adding fractions.

most Esports games like DOTA live on adding content in the form of new heroes and items constantly, dota has 120+ unique heroes and just as many unique items and yet its one of the very largest Esports.

also IMO being an Esport is misguided, it shouldn’t strive for that.

also just personal opinion but i think the way they went about making factions unique was misguided, things like moving bases is something that will always be either broken or useless.

[Kamprrrrr]

I said none in first DLC Thez should focus on campaigns they aren’t added allready. Give this game 2 years and add 1 civilization. 2 civilizations max.

And I dont agree that the balance should’nt be around specific civ pair. All pairs should be ballanced. Thats the reason why Dawn of War or Company of Heroes wasn’t succesfull as a esport games. There were match ups where some fraction was clearly favourite.

Of course for casual, single player, campaign players more civs = better. But for multiplayer, esport focused players it will be game killer.

[Vinifrss]

@Kamprrrrr

But for multiplayer, esport focused players it will be game killer.

AoE2 has FORTY civilizations, far from perfectly balanced. And it’s a decent esport imo, one of the most long-lasting. Do you agree?

My friend, you didn’t answer the most important issue:

If this is genuinely Age of Empires, how can it not have the Ottoman EMPIRE, the world’s greatest empire in the last 300 years of the game? How can it not have the Byzantine EMPIRE, the longest existing empire, that dominated the early centuries of AoE4?