In opposition to the post says i agree with you, the game doesn’t need the arrow trajectory to be high competitive or to have micro. So the lack of such this feature wouldn’t make me have such pessimist opinion about the game as him or other people, but as I have pointed already I am pro it because I think it could make the game better. I am replying this because I don’t know if you have not played aoe2 or have not played enough to know how such mechanic works but It’s not RNG, not at all. It’s not RNG because it’s not like RPG where the arrow has chance to hit. Without balistics the arrows will hit if the unit is static,if it moves will not, simple as that. With balistics the arrow shooted will follow the unit movement so in a small distance the target won’t have the possibility to evade because of the projectile speed but in medium/high distance, despite being extremely difficult to time it correctly, its possible to be able to evade. It all depends on the time reaction of the players and thats not RNG, quite the opposite, it creates another skill gap between players. So besides the visually appeasing factor where the arrow don’t move like spells this sort of mechanics open a lot of doors to the gameplay, where players can use mobility of units in their advantage in battles, is more possible to win outnumbered battles if played better, make the positioning of units matter more and has the spectacle factor where units are dancing in order to get better positioning to win battles what looks amazing in team games and require a lot of coordination between players. Summarizing, I am completely fine about the game not ever having such feature but I have the conviction that the addition of it would elevate the game quality, remember one thing , aoe2 is a game on the front of steam statistics page with an engine built before 20s, surviving 3 sequels and outnumbered all of them 20 years later, it’s a game built differently, many things made that possible, and for someone that had played it a lot , I am pretty sure that the projectile mechanic has a big role on it.
Units actually have 80 to just short of 90% accuracy in Age2 on their max distance until thumbring is teched.
Missing arrows cause of how the trajectory without ballistics work in medium-long is just a free “out of jail” card that makes the game slower/unpunishable than it should be in my opinion.
I think what mechanic you prefer is purely subjective, similar to if you like more classic rts games or tabletop realtime sims like DoW/CoH.
I personally like it the way AoE4 has set up the arrows and I’m a very competitive person (1560-1750 elo aoe4, master sc, was really high rated coh once as well, diamond-masters in heroes and highest was diamond in league).
When i shoot I want to deal damage, simple as that.
There’s nothing more frustrating than mechanics or rng in my way that take control out of certain situations from me.
If my oponent doesn’t pull his vills away from gold soon enough he should be punished for it instead of just loosing 1 and then moonwalking out of there, cause movement and TCs are such big safe mechanics.
That’s why I personally don’t like it and absolutely don’t miss it.
I think Age2 is more popular because it’s more accessible (lower system req, lower price), while delivering more content (more gamemodes, maps, mod support and 2 decades of balance work ans content drops with coop/campaigns and publicly integrated usercontent).
I’m not sure how big the arrow mechanic plays a role into it, but when I compare the two games and what makes age4 fall behind as a game the arrows wouldn’t even be a thing I looked at.
Sounds more like a topic about AoE2 players wanting another definitive edition for their game to me.
AoE4 suffers from repetitive gameplay cause of bad landmark and unit/civ balance, insecurity about how to design water and siege on basic levels, and a lack of content and features to make up for the repetitive experience (no other gamemodes or mods to mix it up).
It’s like I said before, if I can’t manually direct where the arrows go, they shouldn’t be able to dodge them either. The area of effect siege (Mangonel, NoB) does have a bit of a ballistics issue and that would fix it.
Everything must depend on the player, almost nothing should be random.
You are right but I don’t think anyone ever mentioned accuracy odd as a necessary mechanic, the trajectory mechanic is not logically attached to the thumb ring mechanic ,these are two different things that makes the implementation of one not necessary for the other, it seems like the only reason to bring this up is the necessity of a puppet to apply the RNG argument which is a fallacy.
What you “want” is just purely subjective, simple as that.
if he doesn’t pull his vills away from gold soon enough he will get punished, period. If you have no ballistics and he react to pull away before your arrows go out of the unit’s bow they will be fine, but if he doesn’t react he will be punish, soon enough differs from circumstances here, before balistics a greater window to react, after a smaller, and it’s a reciprocal thing, the same applies for you in a reversed situation. About the moonwalking I assume you are referring to the dodge possibility which is a micro mechanic that the game allow (FOR BOTH PLAYERS), and the possibility of it, as I said before, it just creates a skill gap between players and this is not subjective.
The accessibility doesn’t apply after 2 decades where most of pcs can run any of the age of empires, the same way you think the accessibility attracts people I think the limited visual quality provoked by it’s oldness repulse new people, and being subjective, in my opinion the age factor here works more as boundary to the game than anything else, but this is something that is impossible to know for sure.
Absolutely not, as I said in the first topic, there is a flaw in the mechanic that I see and I would love to see it improved, this is not the characteristic of someone wanting “another age 2 de”, if it was about wanting a new age 2 DE people would be wanting something like thumbring ring too, but the only one mentioning that here seems like you. Age 2 didn’t went through balancing process for 2 decades , it lost support several times, it’s not like a company was behind it changing things to improve the game during 2 decades, the game changes would always come from third parties and after the official release of DE many things got lost and the game passed for a rebalance. The projectile mechanic is a feature exclusively from age 2 and age 2 is the biggest rts between the 4 and the only one that still holds a relative numerous public between them all, it would be a big coincidence if there is no relation between both.
Agree. As I said I don’t think that age 4 can’t be good without it or can’t be micro demanding , but I think the addition of such mechanic would potencialize how better the game can be.
I just wanted to reply here that the whole premise of this thread is ridiculous. Ok, you liked arrows you could dodge with a bunch of micromanagement. Maybe you were accustomed to that and did well with it and this change forces you to play a bit differently. Clickety click click click click. You should just say you want a lot more micro in battles, speed-click competition. Forget about your town, just speed-click to victory. Guess what? I don’t want that. Based on replies, I’ll say that lots of other people don’t want that.
One of the reasons why many people say this is that they are from other fantasy RTS genres. This is the medieval one. Therefore, experiencing heat-seeking projectiles is just stupid. It does not just click, click-click… LOL, what a joke… It needs a lot of calculation and you have to be much more focused during engagements and careful. In AOE4, what players do is just send attack move ranged units and it is obvious they will hit every shot without any skill, while you manage your economy.
Most of the people who don’t want to see this are casuals as they are not able to deal with such pressure. And this is why AOE4 competitive stage is not very attractive and challenging.
Vengo de juegos RTS como C&C en los que el micro es mucho más clickety clic clic clic, pero eso no significa que te olvides de tu ciudad, sólo significa que tienes que prestar más atención a ambos. El verdadero problema de tener un micro más complejo es que el tipo de micro puede ser realmente laborioso.
I never said thumbring plays into the trajectory… that’s why I brought up ballistics.
I refered to accuracy and trajectory of projectiles as things that are limiting the control you have over what is happening.
If I attack something, it should deal damage.
That was my entire point.
RNG or mechanics that limit the damage output of my units are taking control out of my hands, which I critizised as beeing annoying from a competitive perspective.
Dude idk how often I repeated that:
Seems like you just want to cherrypick quotes without context to pretend you disassemble someones position for cheap “gotchas” without actully talking to me.
I said what you prefer is subjective, but arguing that some is clearly better and AoE4 cannot be competitive without beeing more like AoE2 is just not true.
You can make increadibly strong points against the aoe2 arrow mechanic beeing competitive overall.
Do you get punished more or less when you have the AOE2 projectile mechanic in place compared to AoE4?
You get punished less, cause you have a bigger timewindow to react into absolute immunity.
You know very well what I said and still miss the point I made/missrepresent it and go into a big analysis to dodge the most simple thing.
You get punished less in AoE2 than AoE4 when you pull your workers too late from your ressources, which desentivizes early pushes.
I don’t know if you truly believe this stuff you are saying at this point…
Of course system requirement and price plays into it.
There are so many posts about lack of AVX support on CPUs and frame issues, even on high end systems, here in the forum.
THE GAME GOT WORKED ON.
Consistently 100% of the time or not, the game has more content and got more support than AoE4.
Why are you making so many excuses for the most obvious things but then complain about how arrows look out of place.
nah, it is just you were not able to control your units properly! LOL
So what happens if you play FPS games? Will you complain to COD Warzone devs about your 0% hit rate because you have 0 skills to control recoil? Then you will complain the game needs an aimbot (cheat/Hack) so finally, the game can be competitive?
You don’t have to attack any single point to be able to disagree you know?
Counterpositions can have stuff you agree with as well, and you do no matter how you try to ridicule around here.
Are you getting punished more in AoE4 or AoE2 when you let archers get close to your vill line with late reaction?
Ofc in AoE4, which makes the gameplay tighter and punishes missplays more.
This results in the gameflow beeing a little bit less about pressure and tightness early game AoE2, since investment in harder archer opening for example doesn’t really have the potential to pay off.
If you disagree you just absolutely deny reality.
My enitre point still stands:
AoE4 doesn’t HAVE TO HAVE this mechanic to be “truly competitive”.
No game needs it to be truly competitive.
Me as a competitive player even hate it cause of given reasons.
Sry to not circlejerk around in your echochamber and not fitting into your view of “competitive players want this”.
Its like a COD Warzone survey question: Do you feel punished playing against a cheater with 100% headshot accuracy? Please give us a Yes or No answer… YES
We would be happy to hear more about this issue, please leave extra feedback here: And here you will say, Hi, I am Keempf, I am very happy that I was not possible to react at all against a cheater and I feel the game is in a great state. I would like to ask for a more advanced AIMBOT that will shoot me through walls so I cannot react at all.
You did paragraphs defending why the rng is bad for rts, that’s a mechanic from thumbring ring not from the trajectory , so yeah , you mentioned it indirectly a lot with the intuition of dismantle the topic of the discussion that has nothing related to accuracy odd, thumbering ring.
Sorry if I quoted that wrongly and you are exemplifying your point, and about the above I assume that you are not directing this to me since i have explicitly said the opposite several times and agreed with you.
Without balistitcs you would get less punished because it would have a bigger time window, but remembers the less punishment is reciprocal, the ability to dodge with it not necessary , that’s what increases the skill gap, one is equivalent to both, the other one only the better on it would stand out
I trully believe that… I am not saying that the game don’t get people because of the lower specs but I highly believe that the gain would be higher than the loss if it had visuals of a 2020+ game. If you click at my topics you would see that i am in high favor to innovation, so I think if a game brings quality in exchange of performance sometimes it’s worth it, just my way of view things.
I am not making excuses about anything , just pointing factual things about age 2, if it makes you edgy I am stopping here because that’s not my point, my point it’s to bring knowledge to the topic, if you want to build a bubble for people with the RNG argument or whatever , feel free my friend.