Why does ashigaru move at 4.5 speed ? It's faster that most range infantery

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

In my believe, range infantery (skirmisher) can move faster that line infantery, because they don’t deploy in formation that need to keep its cohesivness. In the game, range infantery outrange musketeer-like heavy infantery and are able to kit them.

Let’s see the speed of some distance infantery units (or light infantery if you prefer given it does not refer to coyotte anymore):

5 : Jaeger
4.5 : Cassador, Strelet
4 : Skirmisher, Gurka, Arquebusier, Forest Prowler, Wakina Rifle.

I have no problem concerning the fact that some range infantery move faster than other.

We can see that most range infantery move at the same speed (4) than musketeer-like heavy infantery.

However, ashigaru move at 4.5. It means that ashigaru can close the distance to range infantery, and wreak havoc. I don’t believe it is right.

I would like to see

i) the speed of ashigaru reduced to 4

or/and

ii) the speed of range infantery moving at 4 speed changed to 4.25.

I believe that reducing the speed of ashigaru musketeers will force japenese player to use other unit than ashigaru/naginata rider. I would be open that the card Close combat give a + 10% speed increase to ashigaru to balance this (and the fact they can’t have advanced arsenal speed boost)

6 Likes
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yes whats the point of having longbow man if ashigarus can get close very fast

2 Likes
3

Yes, I totally agree, the other statistics should also be reviewed, I still propose that their attack and hp are also reduced in exchange for a cost reduction.
PD: Come on mister developer, we’ve been asking for it a long time, please don’t keep us waiting.

4 Likes
4

I agree to reducing their speed to 4.0 It is already strong enough. Why does it have to destroy its counter?

Let’s take brits for example. if you use musk as brits an you’re facing someone who’s massing skirms you may go close and try and kill those but if you fail you won’t get out alive. Which is what happens with ashi As they outrun their counter they keep going in and out whenever they want.

The more close a unit type is to its same type of units. The easier it is to balance.

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5

I find that ashigaru are fine otherwise. They cost 5 food and 15 gold more (+20% cost compared from a musketeers) for only 13% more hp and 4,5% more attack.

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6

ashi are just too good in lategame per population.

i would keep the speed but decrease the range to 11, so 1 less than any other musketier. Then i would decrease the HP an to be closer ro regular musketier and decrease the gold cost bz 10 to round it all up as a balanced unit.

so it becomes a musketier with more speed to move in but lower range. maybe very slightly higher hp and damage with higher a cost of 80 food and 30 gold.

If we dont nerf the range then i think nerfing the speed is needed. give the charge in that case like sweden and nerf the speed to 4.2

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7

Well yes, you are right, maybe reduce your costs and hp will cause ashis spam to continue to exist and much more powerful, my idea is simply to find some way to force the Japanese to combine them with something more than just good … more ashigarus , and the problem of all those infantry improvements still exists, how can we solve it?

8

Make ashi 4 speed 23 attack 150 hp and reduce cost to 75f 25 gold ^^.

Why ashi have 4.5? because it’s good to have different unit with different stat. Ashi are pretty bad for their cost in term of stat (they are less cost efficient than a musket in age 2).

2 Likes
9

Ashi are faster that most range infantery. That’s all. I don’t mind their other stats, but you have to able to kit them

10

notif you count wood needed to build another house, also they get hitpoints from aura and from consulate

11

The later the game goes. the much less of unit price matters. What matters when you get 200/200 is your unit stats more than their price

And ashigaru have amazing stats for being a musketeer

2 Likes
12

If ashi are too strong, can we talk about jan and sepoy? they cost less, and better stat. If ashi should be nerf, it’s not in early stage but later in the game.

13

This is kind of a sidenote but I don’t think it makes a lick of sense that ashigarus are even close to being good when in real life they were literally untrained peasant farmers.

1 Like
14

If you don’t want your precious ashigaru changed, don’t you agree that

Skirmisher, Gurka, Arquebusier, Forest Prowler and Wakina Rifle should have the same speed, i.e. 4.5 ?

15

My precious ashigaru ahaha. I have never played japan in my life (and i play since 2007 ^^).

It’s just a little boring than peaple ask for randoms change for no reason.

[quote=“Inocybe2755, post:1, topic:108519”]
I believe that reducing the speed of ashigaru musketeers will force japenese player to use other unit than ashigaru/naginata rider.[/quote]

Like it’s not yumi or yamabushi don’t exist ^^

16

longbows aren’t counters to ashigaru, they are mainly a counter to light cavalry and secondly they are good vs all infantry, including skirmishers. the trade of for these strengths are that they don’t do nearly as well vs heavy infantry in a straight fight.

also britain should be trying to use a mixture of units, longbows esp. should not be fighting without other units in front.

17

Ashigaru are not OP, and they really don’t need more nerfs atm, they are fine for what they are and are basically the main reason to play japan militarily.

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lol “and are basically the main reason to play japan militarily”. if we discussing about a unit that is op, this commentary is obvious
better say why is not op

1 Like
20

to me OP implies a unit can perform in ways you wouldn’t expect of a unit of its class, which ashigaru simply don’t. what counters musketeers counter ashigaru, and vice versa. they are a more expensive unit with a similar boost in dmg but lower boost in HP.

21

but then at some point Ashigaru just becomes a skin instead of a unique unit though. Fast muskets is a japan thing. Just gotta play around that the best you can imo. I would rather have nerfs that reduce a civ’s power than nerfs that reduce a civ’s character.

The later the game goes. the much less of unit price matters. What matters when you get 200/200 is your unit stats more than their price

This is only true in games that go into Imperial, where power/cost ratios stop mattering and game balance (at least in supremacy) goes out the window anyway. There are a lot of units to complain about in Age V supremacy, whether they be over-powered or under-powered.