they are still pretty solid and still give you the arbs power spike tbf. I saw many times pros teching into them
very good siege for example. Having siege rams and steroid scorpions allows you to go for a very strong halbs + siege push even lacking the last armor upgrade.
Having also fu hussars and cavaliers means they actually have a lot of options in 1v1 backed by an amazing eco.
Khmer are still crazy good, just not as op as they were some patches ago
It would change a lot, since Indians is actually one of the few civs that could get both the Food and Gold economy to mass BEs in 1v1, like the Khmer can, but way more Elephants.
No. Imperial Camels are worse than Paladins except against Cavalry, much less EBEs.
HD did it, and people gobled up all those expansions.
It is both fair, and a viable business model.
hand cannon + generic meatshield. There you go.
Giving them BE would not reduce their usage in tg because the BE pockets are still the best pockets along with indians (which are amazing pockets in open maps like arabia). You have to remember that BE are still the best unit that a pocket can make, shredding even the imp camels (which btw requires you to research two upgrade against the single one you need for EBE. It’s almost impossible, even with an indian pocket, to delay the eles push this much), so giving them BE would make people pick them even more.
In 1v1 they are already viable. Ofc you need to do something different from full camels (thank the lord the times where not even halbs could do something to indians’ camels are gone), but they are still perfectly viable, with a lot of pros choosing the route of halbs + HCA in imp for example.
HD wasn’t try to portray itself as an esport
Yet it did achieve it. Also, Esprts killed RTS, so I do not much care about trying to be portrayed as one, to be honest.
the community made it possible, not HD. That’s why all the competitive player were on Voobly. HD was (and still is) a terrible product that wasn’t fit for competitive play.
If you want a game to be competitive you should not lock civs behind a paywall, because that way you are giving an advantage to people who are willing to spend more money.
Your opinion mate, but there are still a lot of people (mainly the multiayer community and the ones that follow the scene) that would love that, me included
Best thing the devs can do is introduce another indianish civi with a elephant uu and not give them BE.then can move to giving both those civis new sails kings and make them share the building set.
Majority are happy.
Their rate is reduced but overall they still farm way faster. Also at some point you stop vill production while Khmer farming bonus still applies.
I wouldn’t say so. Besides cavalier (which admittedly is a rather short-lived option) they have arbalest, super scorpions, and siege ram. Also hussar, skirm, siege ram and that farming bonus combined is one of the best late game compositions there is. They aren’t as strong as before the nerfs, of course, but still a very powerfull civ (combining strong units, great eco and open tech tree).
BE are rather rare even with Khmer, here. It’s just too expensive while also very slow unit to make it a universally viable unit in 1v1. Indians eco wouldn’t change that. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Indians should get BE, just highlighting that BE aren’t as good as some people think. Hussar is still the better unit.
Yeah but thing is, there always is heavy cav in tg. I’m not an experienced tg player but imp camels+eco is the reason why Indians is so popular as pocket, isn’t it?
What would be the point of adding just regular battle elephants? So they can say Indians have elephants? You have elephant archers.
You might be okay with just having unused zero bonuses elephants but others would not. To prove my point.
And if you look at other threads, others want some sort of bonus for them.
Except mongols don’t have a superb economy and didn’t have a lancer unit at all.
Indians not only have one of the best ecos in the game, they also already have an elephant unit.
Except your example means they just get regular battle elephants and that’s it. The op has made his stance on that clear. How many nerfs do you think Indians would receive to have the best Elephants in the game?
But their fire rate and accuracy would still be lacking compared to other civs.
Their siege already got nerfed and their halbs lack the final armor upgrade making them very weak against anything except cavalry.
So a couple meat shields.
I wish you luck in this campaign.
But cheaper villagers means you can boom faster because you need less food for villager production, and you can use more villagers to gather other resources.
Also on any sort of map where shore fishing is available Indians clearly outclass the field.
Arbs without thumb ring, so they have inferior accuracy and firing rate to other civs.
How often do scorpions actually see use?
Rams ill give you but they ain’t killing units.
Sure when gold runs out. Indians literally have all that except siege rams, but a better eco overall.
Now imagine indians with their insane eco and as the op puts it, the best Elephants in the game. They wojld be superior to khmer in practicly every regard
yep, plus the facts that camels are fast, so in open maps they can still run from certain threats while still being decent against xbow and shredding any kts civ.
only problem is that if a ele player forces a fight you cannot leave your flank to die
… which is literally the purpose of halbs in a halbs + siege push. and yeah, their siege has been nerfed and that is fine, them having bombard cannons was simply too strong with this eco
yeah, but lacking thumb ring isn’t as big of a deal as many people think it is. it’s an important upgrade, but lacking it doesn’t make your arbs bad like missing bracer. Plus, the whole point of going arbs with khmer is using their power spike thanks to their eco bonus which should allow them to reach imp faster.
Again, Khmer are still crazy good, with a lot of solid options and some incredibly strong one.
I’m against giving BE to indians. they are already amazing in team games and really solid in 1v1
Khmer has arbalest, cavalier, good siege even after the nerf. These units are pure gold units, while imperial camels, Indian hand cannoons are counter units, so I’d say Khmer military is better, especially in 1v1 because why would you make Paladins against Indians also Khmer eles shred imp camels in tgs
Khmer=you start booming much faster than Indians or other civs 22+0 while even Mongols need 22+2 with Blacksmith and Market
Honestly Im just tired of seeing the same topic over and over again.
yes but the point is you could easily counter such a push due to how weak there halbs are.
Not disagreeing. Now imagine indians with "the best Elephants in the game ".
And yet that is what the op wants. Which is why I was pointing out why its such an issue.
Arbs who lack thumb ring and very generic cavalier with zero bonuses to them. Neither are a good long term strategy.
Indians have camels, fully upgraded cavalry archers, champs only missing armor, and they get bombard cannons.
Khmer trade better siege for inferior infantry and their archers id say are inferior due to lacking thumb ring and heavy cavalry archers.
Take a look at all the nerfs khmer have gone through in the past couple months @CheshireWig3203. Do you think Indians with as the op puts it “the best Elephants in the game” would go unnerfed?
I’d say Khmer still have the better boom overall. It’s very much dependent on the actual game and map but that farming speed plus no buildings requirement still makes for one of the best boom in the game. But what makes Khmer better than Indians in the end is the unit availability. Neither having arbs nor knights is just really bad in a lot of match ups.
Not optimal but still arbs. It simply is the best early imp unit and that time window is all you need with Khmer. Afterwards you usually go trash and siege. Siege ram is the most important one, here btw. Scorpions aren’t indeed that common in late game but in castle age their scorps are great to defend from archers, for instance. So the difference is that while Khmer have great options at all stages of the game, Indians can have a lot of awkward moments. Not to mention all the bad matchups vs civs that rely on infantry+archers.
Khmer still get the better archers. Arb is so much more important than cav archers. You only see them from Indians because they lack arb and the knight-line. Champs without armor also isn’t great, either. Imo with Indians you trade not having the most important core units for having some situational units that can be nice here and there.
A game having to be an E-Sport is overrated.
Look at in which state all the Starcraft wannabes are now. Dawn of War 3 and Grey Goo tried to be the next big thing and both failed horribly due to not being fun in the first place.
RTS games should try to be accessible while not oversimplifying and rendering the game in the long term boring and generic.
I disagree with you but either way, Fact remains they have a superb boom and if the op got what he wanted (Indians having best Elephants) they absolutely would need nerfed elsewhere
Believe me that those won’t be attractive because for campaigns there are some in the workshop.
Even though I play almost exclusively Singleplayer, I rarely play the campaigns.
An RTS without the option of SP skirmishes would be a no-buy for me.