Why is hakkapelit so broken

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
21

that would kinda make them the same as before but worse tbh since they get the extra downside of a weakness to skirm that they didnt have before

remove the multi in melee and an reduce their multi in range since they have the aoe

reduce their range armour as well, they can keep the benefits, they just need to be fragile

22

Honestly they were fine how they were before, being hand cav with a ranged attack that was good against musketeers.

Sweden’s dragoon was the Carolean but they nerfed platoon fire and made hakkapell closer to a dragoon while keeping their basic stats buy adding multipliers and changing them from heavy cav to light ranged cav tags.

I say
Reduce their range back to 6 (maybe 8) OR
Revert all the changes except their range buff (keep cards as they are)

2 Likes
23

i’d say, keep the nerfs few and only in specific parts, to prevent overnerfing beyond usable state, they have to avoid the triple nerf, which has always been too big of a hit when applied, 2 stats nerfed max, just pick which ones with caution, but i think balance team in 3 as well as 2 understand this, can’t be sure of it for aoe4, but this is aoe3 forum anyway

1 Like
24

China can’t even deal with hakkapelit right now, every game against sweden is an instant loss, a 90hp non-upgraded ckn or age 3 arquebusier will die immediately.

25

Cooler still would be to reduce the shoot cool-down instead of an hp or attack buff

26
  • They could reduce melee attack damage and leave the anti-cavalry multiplier (melee). This way they keep their anti-cavalry role but do worse against infantry. (it can do 2 roles but shouldn’t be good at both).

OR

  • A major nerf to melee but add a big button that increase melee for 30 secs (like carolean charge)
27

Por que no hacen algo mĂĄs simple le aumentan el costo de pop en 1 y su ataque a distancia ahora es un ataque cargado, y ya seria una caballeria ligera cuerpo a cuerpo, ahi me dicen que les parece esa idea

28

if they’re going to benefit from being heavy cav then they should have the tag so that they can at least be countered by other dragoons like the RR. Honestly, I think they should just revert them back to a pure heavy cav unit though. Hakkas were niche before but not at all unusable and not having skirm/goon is supposed to be part of Sweden’s original design. The carolean should be the only core unit that fills the ranged anti-cav role.

2 Likes
29

Removing the hand cav tag would make them worthless lol.

The only reason they work at all for swedes is the fact they benefit from the hand cav cards and the ranged cav combat card. Otherwise they are worthless. Their base un-upgraded stats are garbage

3 Likes
30

This is literally untrue. Aussie_Drongo used to say if a Sweden player made hakkapelits they were going to lose. They needed a rework because they were an absolutely terrible unit with no real value to Sweden.

5 Likes
31

Basically what happens here after an unexpected tourney win. Ever wondered what happened to outlaws? (Except cowboy maybe)

32

This was over a year ago and they’ve received buffs between then and the most recent patch. I never said they were a good unit but the recent state of them before the latest patch was that they were a side grade from hussars that you would see every once in a while. They still may have needed another buff, but this was very much an overtune. If they are going to take the role of a dragoon, then they’re going to need to have their stats put in line with other dragoons. The fact that they’re fast, have such high hand attack, coupled with a ranged option lets them mop up their counters much much too easily in most situations.

2 Likes
33

we can learn from the bolas, easiest fix is a negative multi vs infantry and remove the melee bonus

34

Hakkapelit is supposed to be strong in melee, it’s as intended even in their description.

They used to have a negative multiplier against Pikemen at range though.

Seconded, they should revert them back into heavy cav and revert platoon fire for caroleans.
The problem was that nobody knew how to use them, they have their time in the spotlight and now people know they are pretty strong against musketeers at range this won’t change if they revert them back (other than the range buff that might be reverted).

1 Like
35

well the other problem was that they were hard countered by dragoons, which swedes had no good counters for since they don’t really have skirms

its the same problem that rifle riders have.

sure but their base melee damage is already that of a hussar , so that isn’t the problem, is that they have 1.5x bonus vs all cav(even other dragoons) and 1.2x vs all shock infantry(though this matters slightly less)

You can just remove or even change it to the same as their range bonus and they would be less of a problem. You can even boost their base atk to 35.

And in general units with range splash are going to need negative multi towards their counters, same with the bolas

1 Like
36

no china actually doesn’t do terribly vs hakkas, due to repelling volley, just need enough changdaos in front with cover mode, and ur sea of arqs would destroy the hakkas, given u and ur opponent are the same skill level

2 Likes
37

I think he might be talking about the old hakka, which was a heavy cav. China didn’t have a good counter to that. Right now China does better than other civs due to repelling volley.

1 Like
38

I am watching a streamer at 1600 elo now. He plays ranked 1v1 and is facing hakka spammer right there. Opponent just made only hakka with one batch of jaeger that’s how opponent won. French has no answer to that.

1 Like
39

that may work if china is able to even get to age 3 before swedish opponent and have the eco to make enough arquebusiers

40

china ff isn’t that hard, the build would be to age with confucian academy to age 3 for 8 skirms, then send 10 skirms, then repelling volley, then the choice changes depending on opponent response.

cav? 11 changdaos or intervention + territorial army

cannon? 5 meteor hammer + forbidden army

2 Likes