I agree in removing wonders are to easy to do. Or let u pick in quick match ur victory conditions so if u choose to play with wonders u can or choose landmark or scared sites only.we need more options
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As a weaker player, using only Delhi, going for the Wonder win is always on my mind. I just canât play on an even level without one.
It can make team games dry, but so does late game China.
They have always existed and are fine. At most, increase the resources per player ⊠At this rate you will also take away the victories, right?
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Hear that chaps?
Itâs all good.
Man, that is an IMMENSE relief XD
A weaker player minus 12k resources should always lose to a stronger player. Thus, youâre not the stronger player you think you are. Time for introspection.
Firstly, you missed a little detail. Itâs tg.
4 players â 3k per player.
Secondly, you good theoretic, but barely played any TGs.
In Inp 3k per minute is normal.
Just place another wall behind your first wall and you will collect these 12k easily.
But yes, if we play âpaper theoretic gamesâ, than even 300 food will decide who wins.
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12k resources is a bigger deal than youâre trying to make it. So is being a minute behind.
Four players may generate 12k resources per minute but there are a number of factors that can determine if youâre able to generate 12k resources. Regardless of income, in team games what dictates winning is the ability to generate the right troops in the right quantities at the right time and place. Perhaps thatâs where your inadequacy lies.
I do lose to wonder victories all the time but my teammates and I have always been able to come up with something that we could have done differently. It wasnât them just building a wonder that made them win, it was the way we reacted to it.
Plus, at the end of the day, winning with a wonder victory really isnât winning. Almost every wonder game Iâve lost Iâve nearly destroyed the opponent completely but still lost to the wonder. I donât consider those real âlossesâ since weâve beaten them at what the core of the game is about. In the end, everyone ends up happy: the losers that build wonders and the winners who destroyed them and lost on a technicality.
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Maybe it does need tweaking but I personally havenât seen or experienced the smoking gun that it is too strong. On more open maps, it can be a death sentence unless you are playing against significantly weaker players.
What are not âbig dealâ
10k? 5k? 1k?
What are not âbig dealâ
Hera against top 28 with his casual 9k food per minute.
Try to learn how not throw resources into trashâŠ
12000/240 = 50 kts, unless ur knights are somehow cheaper.
10 bombards will do -10 knights in 2 hits.
In team games it really does not matter how many resources you have, only matters how you fight. Itâs so easy to play from defence with siege, if you choose good position.
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He also âCasuallyâ has 175 vills on food in that clip lol. 12k resources is 12 bombards, having 12 extra bombards means you should be able to kill a wonder on most maps. The issue isnât really wonder rushes but on more closed maps the mid-imp wonder when everyone has excess resources anyways.
Itâs a challenge. but itâs still rating game. against top28. at least overlay says itâs top28.
means nothing, because you still need to pass the front line against other 4 players.
Well, in aoe2 Itâs fun to play BlackForest (now pros casting only TGs on BF). Even with extra resources, game are fun.
Game for position, map controlâŠWith a lot of army, without raids.
Player can stop doing army on one flang and try raid via forest. And itâs fine. No one loose instantly, may be some positions will be lost, but front are moving constantly.
One can lose 100 tiles of map and fine.
I do not think that âclosed maps are the issueâ because ppl have some extras, I think that Wonder is the issue.
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Haha yes my math was very wrong on the knights.
Just cause itâs a high elo game doesnât mean itâs serious, viable or an actual strategy. either he was crushing his opponent or trolling cause going 0 military 200 vills is just memeing. Just cause viper goes full organ gun portuguese in high elo aoe2 games doesnât mean its a reasonable or viable strategy.
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Wonders need a serious change. They need to take a really long time to build and cost more resources depending on team size like how others have mentioned here. Also, every water map is a wonder game lol.
What if building a wonder takes up pop space? Like the feitorias from age2. This way the player who builds it canât have the same army size as the attackers.
by why wonder should be kept in Random Map in the first place? Is not it already enough conditions to win: secret sites or landmarks?
Even water in aoe2 can be âfinishedâ because someone (who took bad fights will be out of resources).
Why game need a plug to finish a game?
PS thatâs why i do not like idea with âinfinite foodâ. But wood are limited anyways and secret sites allow to finish game.
Youâre right that wonders should be kept out of ranked games. Iâm just sayinâ they should be more difficult to make when theyâre allowed.
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Just need to do something else with Black Forest. Thatâs the biggest issue. Other maps are difficult, but Black Forest with lack of sacred sites is literally nothing but wonder rush in team games. Maybe put sacred sites back in team games but leave them off for 1v1?
IDK how to fix black forest for team games, frankly. Allow bans? Make the forest smaller so it doesnât take so long to cross? Make larger open areas in the middle so you have room to build forward production buildings? Put fewer resources on each side of the map? As much as I despise that Black Forest is always a wonder race, 3 hour long games (because itâs impossible to actually push through the middle and take someone out) might be even worse. Extending the wonder victory timer would help (so you could at least try to landmark one of the other players first and have a numbers advantage when pushing the wonder), but Iâm not sure that solves it.
Maybe put very little gold on each side of the map, but multiple markets in the forest so youâre forced to try and secure at least a portion of it?
What do you think about having the wonder cost something like 30 population?
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Probably result in the end of building wonders or many more layers of walls/defensive structures.
I briefly considered the idea of wonders costing pop, but I think that would make them TOO difficult to defend properly. Probably the timer needs to get longer in team games and cost needs to go up.
Black Forest needs to change period because thereâs nothing you can do with wonders that makes Black Forest work for team games. 1v1 I think itâs probably ok. AoE2 BF works on team games, although I dislike it, because you inevitably end up with an army comp that rolls the opponents, or you canât maintain unit spam, or you can cut trees. Something like that plays out. It almost never becomes a complete stalemate. In AoE4 it becomes a complete stalemate because itâs too hard for the attacker to reinforce and maintain pressure. Probably because (a) thereâs not enough room to build production buildings in the forest, (b) regular units canât attack walls, and (c) defending siege is way too hard to kill. I think itâs something along those lines. Iâm not exactly sure, but in AoE2 you tend to lose a battle and it snowballs all the way through the forest. In AoE4 that doesnât seem to occur. Maybe counterattacks are too slow? Idk. The more I think about it, the more I lean towards significantly reducing gold available on the sides of the map and making people play for markets in the middle.