"A New World" DLC suggestion

[Szaladon]

Inspired by @DarthPyro4335’s post, I decided to make a possible concept outline for another American expansion pack.

Mississippians

New architecture set (Woodland American):
Credits to the architecture sets go to Kondrikthus.

Civ icon:

Architecture set : Woodland American

• Starting with an Eagle Scout
• Farms are smaller (2x2 instead of 3x3)
• 30% of the stone cost of castles and towers is converted to wood
• Eagle warrior line automatically researched

Team Bonus : Eagle Warrior line has +2 range of sight

Disabled techs in the Tech Tree :
Archery Range: Cav Archer, Parthian Tactics, Thumb Ring, Hand Cannoneer
Barracks: None
Economic: Stone Shaft Mining, Guilds, Two Man Saw
Stable: N/A
Siege Workshop: Siege Onager, Bombard Cannon, Scorpion
Blacksmith:Scale Barding Armour, Ring Archer Armour, Bracer
Dock: Cannon Galleon, Heavy Demo Ship
Monastery: -
University: Bombard Tower, Guard Tower, Heated Shot, Arrowslits, Architecture, Siege Engineer
Castle: Hoardings, Sappers

Unique unit : Falcon Warrior: Heavy Eagle Warrior. Imagine a Boyar but as Eagle warrior. Strong vs cav and inf, weak vs archers. 65g 50f

Unique Castle Age technology : Mounds: Castles can train infantry units and garrison siege weapons (regenerate health there too). Tower stone cost completely replaced by wood.
Unique Imperial Age Technology Warrior Priests: Eagle warriors are cheaper

Design idea : A Mesoamerican economic civ which focuses on cheap easily massable defenses. Imagine Goths or Cumans but on towers instead

History : Mississippians were a Mound building Native American culture. Cahokia is the most impressive heritage they left. Probably would speak Caddo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippian_culture
Spoken language : Caddo
Wonder : Monks Mound:

Campaign:Tuskaloosa

Haudenosaunee/Iroquois

Architecture set : Woodland American

Civ icon:

• Starting with an Eagle Scout
• Lumbercamps, Mining camps, Mills are mobile. Very slow and have slightly less hitpoints.
• Siege Workshop units +15%/+30% attack vs buildings in Castle/Imperial age
• Houses cost 40% less wood and have 25% more HP

Team bonus : Team members can build councils

Disabled techs in the Tech Tree :
Archery Range: Cav Archer, Parthian Tactics, Arbalester
Barracks: Arson
Economic: Two Man Saw, Gold Shaft Mining
Stable: N/A
Siege Workshop: Bombard Cannon
Blacksmith: Blast Furnace, Scale Barding Armour
Dock: Fire Ship, Elite Cannon Galleon, Heavy Demo Ship, Shipwright
Monastery: Redemption, Block Printing, Theocracy, Illumination
University: Bombard Tower, Keep, Fortified Walls, Heated Shot, Treadmill Crane, Siege Engineer
Castle: Hoardings

Council : Military building in which the unique unit can be built,(200 w, 100) , no attack

Unique unit Mantlet: Cheap massable siege archer

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/ageofempires/images/0/0c/Mantlet_4.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/176?cb=20130909160811

Unique Castle age technology: Confederation: Unique units of all team members cost 5% less and are built faster in councils

Unique Imperial age technology: Forest Prowlers: Eagle warriors are 15% faster and regenerate their life points

Design idea : A Mesoamerican siege civ with a team focus flair. Would probably also have access to a very generic hand cannoneer, an unicum for a Meso civ. Would heavily focus on raiding. The wood bonus warranties a strong economy

History : The Haudenosaunee are a powerful North East Native American confederacy which origins some suppose can be traced back to 1450. Some say their origins can be traced back even further in the past though this is questionable. The civ would represent all Iroquoian speaking people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois

Spoken language : Mohawk
Wonder : Hiawatha’s Longhouse

Campaign:Hiawatha

Mapuche

Architecture set : Mesoamerican or Andean

Civ icon:

• Starting with an Eagle Scout
• Town Center spawn 1/2/2 Villagers in Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age. Town Centers built in Castle/Imperial Age spawn 2 Villagers
• Military buildings cost -35% wood
• Outposts cost no stone

Team bonus : Blacksmith, Universities, Markets, Monasteries support 5 population

Disabled tech in the Tech Tree :
Archery Range: Cav Archer, Parthian Tactics, Arbalester, Thumb Ring, Elite Skirmisher
Barracks: Squires
Economic: Two Man Saw, Stone Shaft Mining
Stable: Knight*, Hussar, Camel, Battle Elephant, Steppe Lancer
Siege Workshop: Siege Ram, Siege Onager
Blacksmith: Bracer, Ring Archer Armour
Dock: Galleon, Elite Cannon Galleon, Heavy Demo Ship, Dry Docks, Gillnets
Monastery: Heresy, Theocracy, Sanctity
University: Bombard Tower, Heated Shot, Treadmill Crane, Arrowslits, Siege Engineer
Castle: Hoardings

Unique unit Malon Raider: High HP Light Cav unit with low attack, costs wood only with attack bonus versus villagers (90 w)

Stats: 85[100] HP, 4[5] Attack Melee, Attack bonus +10 [+15] vs villager, 0/1 armour, Speed 1.6

Unique Castle age technology : Spanish Horses: Enables access to Chevalier without needing to research any technology beforehand

Unique Imperial age technology : Arauco War: Eagle warriors and Cavalry +20 HP. Malon Raiders +5 attack

Design idea :A Meso cav civ with access to Hand canonner, Cav, Cannon, Galleons and Bombard cannons.

History : The Mapuche are one of the few First Nations which resisted both the Spanish and Incans successfully.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapuche

Spoken language : Mapudungun
Wonder : Chemamulls

Campaign : Lautaro

Other possible additions to such a DLC could be Muisca or Chimu. Don’t have a concept for those though.

Changelog:

• Increased wood discount on Haudenosaunee houses

[JonOli12]

It would actually be cool if Mississipians had Hand Cannoneer, since they had a few guns from the first expedition that they actually defeated.

[LordPatito8258]

Great desing! I don’t like everything (like straight cav could be op, altough idk if you ment knight) and a meso civ without squires kinda kills eagles, but good ideas in general.

Councils could be op though, for certain civs

[Szaladon]

They’d be Cavalier without Bloodlines, so barely better than FU Knights with slightly more armour.

You could easily balance council IMO depending on the training times of the UUs there.

[JonOli12]

There are afew things that would not work, or are a bit OP. A UT that gives +5 Damage is too much specially when it already is double Bloodlines for 1 unit, affects another, and the civ has all Attack upgrades already.

The Mounds UT would not work as intended, since there is no Space in the Castle’s options screen, for 3 more units (Militia, Spearman and Eagles). Maybe just allow the training of Militia line units, and faster than in the Barracks, would be more feasible, since the Castle already produces an UU Eagle variant, and Spearmen are not worth the cost, as they are Trash units.

I would also give Mississipians Arrow Slits. They already miss Bracer and Guard Tower, and Watch Towers are not hard to break, even if they cost only Wood. They could use the +1 Attack from Arrow Slits.

[CheshireWig3203]

I love your concepts. I like Mississippians having trash trash, because they are just soooo strong in Feudal/Castle and early Imperial age.

@Szaladon

Unique unit : Falcon Warrior: Heavy Eagle Warrior. Imagine a Boyar but as Eagle warrior. Strong vs cav and inf, weak vs archers. 65g 50f

Hmmm… Heavy Eagle Warrior, but weak to Archers? Isn’t this a heavy Pikeman/Berserker rather than a Heavy Eagle Warrior?

@Szaladon

Lumbercamps, Mining camps, Mills are mobile. Very slow and have slightly less hitpoints.

This bonus needs to improve the effectivenes of gathering a lot. It needs some testing. The siege bonus is nice, but it won’t win you the game. Honestly the House discount could be a lot bigger, like 50%.

The Araucan civ probably needs Bracer, because their Eagles are slow.

[Szaladon]

@JonOli12

There are afew things that would not work, or are a bit OP. A UT that gives +5 Damage is too much specially when it already is double Bloodlines for 1 unit, affects another, and the civ has all Attack upgrades already.

It just affects Malon Raiders. They already have a very low attack. Giving +5 attack gives them the same attack as a Magyar Huszar, but you that’s your Imp UT which will probably anyway be expensive. Maybe tweak it down if it’s too strong. The Malon is supposed to be strong against vills and weak against almost everything else basically.

@JonOli12

The Mounds UT would not work as intended, since there is no Space in the Castle’s options screen, for 3 more units (Militia, Spearman and Eagles). Maybe just allow the training of Militia line units, and faster than in the Barracks, would be more feasible, since the Castle already produces an UU Eagle variant, and Spearmen are not worth the cost, as they are Trash units.

Could still add a second page if necessary.

@JonOli12

I would also give Mississipians Arrow Slits. They already miss Bracer and Guard Tower, and Watch Towers are not hard to break, even if they cost only Wood. They could use the +1 Attack from Arrow Slits.

I fear it would make their towers too strong considering how inexpensive they are.

[JonOli12]

@Szaladon

I fear it would make their towers too strong considering how inexpensive they are.

Well, any civ with Capped Rams or Onagers (or even Champions with Arson) will go through Watch Towers very quickly. I think adding arrow Slits would no be OP, they already miss both Bracer, Architecture and Guard Tower.

@Szaladon

It just affects Malon Raiders. They already have a very low attack.

I suppose it really would depend on how much attack they have originally, but if the Attack is so low that a +5 upgrade is justified, then the unit itself may be too weak to be viable.

@Szaladon

Could still add a second page if necessary.

Would there really be a need to have Spearmen line and Eagles in the Castle, specially when it already produce it’s own Eagle Variant?

[Szaladon]

The numbers and UTs are just possibilities out of many and are not set in stone.

I’m going to bed right now. Wish you a good night @JonOli12

[Mahazona]

Great ideas overall never knew north american natives had a eagle like unit.

[BunkerFrog95151]

Wow !!! Great idea and great design

[JonOli12]

Almost all armies that depended on Infantry, had Light Shock or Runner Infantry.
You need speed on the battlefield, or else either missile volley fire or Heavy Infantry push (like the Phalanx) will just grind you down.

It maes sense that a city-building people would have some sort of Shock Trooper.

[Mahazona]

Seems many meso cultures had some sort of bird warriors.

[Rorarimbo3774]

I have to tell You well done for the suggestion. The First civ is perfect in my PoV. For the other two Id probably like s,th a bit different but overall great suggestion.

[Szaladon]

Thank you all for the nice comments

[CatchyAthlete13]

A couple civs that could be considered are the Zapotec (they were in Age3 and Europa Universalis) and the Tarascans (Purepecha), both held a large enough territory for quite some time, built cities and engaged in warfare.

[Josh1Axel]

As an american, my humble opinion is that some of these civilizations don’t fit the concept of AoE2

First, the following concepts must be specified:

• Kingdom: Territory in which the head of government is a king or queen. Examples: Franks, Britons, Goths, Vikings
• Empire: it is a political organization in which a State or Nation imposes its power on other countries. Empire derives from the Latin “imperium” which in turn comes from the verb imperare which means “to command”. Examples: Byzantines, Mongols, Aztecs
• Nación Pueblo: A group of people of the same ethnic origin who share historical, cultural, religious, etc. ties. They are aware of belonging to the same town or community, and generally speak the same language and share a territory. There are no “Nación Pueblo” in AoE 2.

Now, I want to analyze some inconsistencies point by point:

Possible controversies: As demonstrated in AoE3 DE, the traditions of many cultures with regard to mining will have to be respected, for which civilizations that did not practice mining and / or metal handling would have to be discarded, or by default, create a game mechanic where the units only require food and wood, this could also mean that stone could not be used in buildings.

Historical period: I’m just going to put this: “The playable civilizations in Age of Empires II are based on prominent civilizations of the post-classical period, from the fall of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century to the start of renaissance era during the 15th century.” So I also think it must be respected that their kings / emperors have been, at least for the most part, in that timeframe.

Historical Accuracy: We know that many times history is transformed into myth, for example, it was believed in the Battle of Gaugamela Alexander fought a million Persians (when there were actually 250,000). There may also be controversy over a specific historical fact: taking as real the outcome of a battle written in a poetic book when the chronicles and archaeological evidence show otherwise.

Regional Power: In my opinion, the civilizations of AoE 2 must have had a degree of influence on the continent or sub-continent, whether by political, military, economic, religious power, etc.

Trade: Have historical evidence that they have practiced trade, preferably with another kingdom or empire.

Consistency: the american civilizations in AoE2 do not possess gunpowder or cavalry (although historically the first americans to master both technologies were the Incas), by the middle of the XVI (16th) century the majority of Native Americans who had had contact with Europeans had already learned to master the horses (several decades of contact and cultural exchange had already passed)

Wonder: It shows the degree of architecture and development of a society, in my opinion the Wonder must be at least one structure that shows architecture that defined the population and that “has stood the test of time.” That it was a technological marvel (like the Great Tent of Genghis Khan)

As a final note, I know that in the end AoE2 is a game and as shown with some mods, and even with the inclusion of the Huns, you can finally program what your imagination allows and can even be added to the USA civilization in a game medieval AoE 2, however, I personally consider myself a lover of AoE 2, and also a lover of history, and I think that the pillar that has sustained AoE 2 all these years is its thematic and historical precision.

[Gaudio3342]

I agree with almost everything you wrote. New american civs should be added with an extremely conservative approach. And here’s the rant.

I don’t know enough about mississipians and iroquois so I’m not gonna comment about them. But mapuches is going too far.
Being an ethnic group is not enough reason to be considered a civ. And no, a phyrric victory against the incas is not a feat. No, neither are wars against the spanish that began only in the extreme limit of the time frame of the game. And horses were not adopted in the first contacts with spanish (which already took place in the second half of the XVI century). It took several years, thus escaping the already stretched middle ages of the game. This is a civ designed historically for AoE 3.
Mapuches were seminomadic people, they didn’t even had cities. Only small villages of timber and adobe houses.

I don’t have anything about mapuches specifically. But cmon, we’re not having endlessly new civs, and of all the civilizations that should be added to the game mapuches are the least qualified to be one of them.

And no, huns should have never been a civ either.

[Josh1Axel]

@Gaudio3342

phyrric victory against the incas is not a feat

Pyrrhic victory? according to Felipe Guamán Poma it was a resounding victory for the Incas.

EL OTABO CAPITÁN, Apo Camae [sic] Ynga:

Fue muy baleroso capitán y que parecía como un león. Tenía temerarios ojos; con una bofetada derriuaua a un hombre y desmayaua ona ora. Y ancí este baleroso capitán fue a Chile lleuando cincoenta mil yndios soldados a la conquista. Y fue hijo de Pachacuti Ynga Yupanqui. Y dizen que mató cien mil chilenos.

Cuci Uanan Chire Ynga y Mango Capac Ynga y Topa Amaro Ynga, Ynga Maytac: Con estos dichos capitanes conquistaron todo Chile y la prouincia de Chaclla, Yaucha, Chinchay Cocha, Tarma. Llebó ueynte mil yndios; conquistaron y mataron muchos yndios y algunos yndios de los llanos yungas. Y murieron en sus conquistas cin bolber a la ciudad del Cuzco.

Para uenser todo Chile, aguardaron que ubiese pistelencia; en el tienpo de pistelencia y hambre de dies años que ubo en este rreyno y en toda Castilla. Como estauan en este trauajo, se dejaron uenserse y conquistarse como en la conquista deste rreyno. Fue Dios seruido que dos rreys se matasen y alborotasen la gente. Y ací fue conquistado.

[Gaudio3342]

I didn’t know about this one. I knew incas conquered some mapuche territory but didn’t achieved to conquer the lands south of some river because a battle where both sides suffered too many casualties ended inconclusively, stopping the inca expansion south.

Your contribution even supports my argument. Mapuches didn’t “succesfully resisted the incas”. Some of them were conquered and when they did resisted, it was not an actual victory.