Culverin do have hidden extra bonus to Gatling Camel, which is 4x.
So one Culverin shot to Gatling Camel will deal 40x4(Artillery Tag)x0.5(Cavalry Tag)x4(Gatling Camel)=320
You can check this in protoy.xml
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on what part of data.bar?
so its a bug, because IU doesnt show it right?
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I don’t think it is a bug, but devs should improve the UI and make sure all damage bonuses displayed.
There is another hidden damage bonus in the game also not displayed on UI, artilleries deal x0.5 damage to Arrow Knights.
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Hello everyone, thanks for your reports. Sometimes, hidden bonuses are given to units to avoid certain units from being able to dominate the battlefield. They are there by design, and also hidden by design! I hope that helps. 
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i didnt understand what you say, hidden bonuses are applied even being hidden, so whats the point to be hidden on iu?.
culverin has a hidden bonus versus camel gathlings, so camel gahtling can dominate as people dont see that culverin is the best to counter it
i would like you explain “hidden bonuses are given to units to avoid certain units from being able to dominate the battlefield” clearlier giving some examples and whys.
to be honest hidden bonuses makes that i dont want to play the game
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Yeah I don’t really understand why it would be hidden by design. If player cannot know how much damage the unit deals, that just seems like bad design? Maybe I’m missing something.
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In this particular case, the point is to prevent overlapping tags from bouncing off each other and dealing way too much damage or way too little damage. In this case, the Culverin would have done far less damage than expected if the bonus into Gatling Camels wasn’t specifically coded - Gatling Camels also carry the abstractcavalry tag, which halves the damage Culverin do. the x4 is to compensate for the halving damage, and then to add on the bonus damage to artillery the Culverin is supposed to do.
Its coded but is not shown on IU. Its imposible to know that culverin does 40 damage 8x bonus= 320 to camel gathling (simplyfling 40 x 4 x.5 x 4)
without the 4x info on IU a player will calculate iu info and think that a culverin is not good versus camel gathlings because it would only deals 40 x 4 x .5 = 80 , a culverin that makes 80 damage each 6 seconds never would kill a gathling so by reading the IU a player would never make a culverin to kill camel gathling, and there is not any other unit better than culverin to kill camel gathling that are in middle of a huge army, but a player cannot know that reading IU.
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that hidden bonus should be displayed too, thanks i will note down that bonus
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It makes sense to me. The bonus makes it so they end up doing the same amount of damage as they do to regular artillery, which is what you would expect. It’d be weird for a unit to have a multiplier for specifically a single mercenary unit you don’t see too often on its stat sheet as well and if it were there it’d give the false impression that it was more effective against them than normal artillery. I do think that the modifier with arrow knights is unneeded now that a precident has been set for both siege resist and dual resistances. just give it 50% siege resist instead.
weird? weird is me using skirmishers to kill camel gathlings because the wrong IU matematics and show that the best unit to kill it is skirmishers, but skirmishers die from them, then i lose all my army stupidly because the IU doesnt show i just need 1 shot of a culverin.
i hope devs show all hidden bonuses and find a way to show it on IU.
i just cant stand the game as it is right now.
the more i play the more i find the need to show all info on IU, every new civ every new update there are things that arent added to IU information, for example they add poison damage, siege damage 1 per second until 10 seconds for archers, but is not shown on IU, i know the space of IU is extremely smalll to show verything, maybe we just need the info shown on a window promted by clicking on the photograph of the unit
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The only reason Culverin have that specific bonus into Gatling Camels is so that they do the damage a player would assume they do in the first place. It doesn’t allow them to do more damage than normal, it simply puts their damage where it should be because Gatling Camel’s abstractcavalry tag halves their damage.
Frankly, there’s nothing that would indicate to players that the damage of a Culverin would be any different or that Culverin would be bad into Gatling Camels.
I think the bigger problem is you don’t know your unit counters properly yet. Keep playing. It’ll start to make more sense as you do.
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we dont assume, we read, thats why IU is updated. how im going to assume the 4x versus camel gathling when there is already a 4x versus artillery displayed on iu?
i honestly give up with the community, COMPLETE iu information, is needed, i said, clicking on picture of units and then we get all info about iu, is necesary.
i give up, there is always people that dont want things change, every post.
i have around 3k hours of game, bro. i just give up with this community that dont want things improve
the problem understanding counters is not mine only, is from almost all comunnity i am. the lack of complet information stinks.
The game dies, i just create camel gathlings and nobody knows how to counter them, people get frustration and just resigns. ive even played versus a top 100 ranked 1vs1 player and he told me that camel gathlings can be counter by skirmishers, which is completely false, because he read the iu he told me that, so its not only my problem
i ask the community on discord and they tellme that if better info on IU is not added to game its because developers dont want, and because they are lazy, discord community never say that its because that info is not needed, but i come here to forum and i find that its hidden by design and many other bad reasons to dont show information, this is not classified information, come on.
i give up, i just think devs are lazy
The point is that the x4 into Gatling Camels is only there because the damage of the Culverin is halved by the abstractcavalry tag. The multiplier then has to multiply the halved damage by four specifically into the Gatling Camel to do the expected damage the Culverin would do in the first place.
But… why in the world would you use skirmishers against them in the first place? They’re artillery, there isn’t a single artillery piece in the game that is best countered with infantry.
because the 4x versus camel gathlings is hidden, so i make the calc and a culverin dos 80 damage each 6 secs. Oh but wait, some genius decided to hide 4x bonus damage versus camel gathlings, assuming that nobody would do maths and just assume culverins would do 4x versus camel gathlings
And because skirmishers ahs bonus versus light cavalry, but who knows, maybe skirmishers get a penalty damage because of camel gathling tag, i must assume that too, right?
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