"Age of Empires II - Definitive Edition - Warchiefs of the Andes" . DLC concept v2

“Everything I don’t like is politically correct”.

Maybe people just want American civs, ever thought of that?

Besides, claiming they were stuck in stone age and saying that should negate their inclusion is straight up weird. Ensemble themselves said people who think that about Native Americans are ignorant.

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In generao a lot of people forget that Iron isnt a big upgrade over bronze

My humble opinion:

The concept is good, and I see that the author has made an effort to do a good historical research, so I am going to contribute with some improvements that in my opinion would be beneficial for this concept:

• Social organization: The term “Warchief” is mainly used for the “Tribal war chief” (although there are exceptions such as in the Blizzard - Warcraft universe), an approximate term is Warlord that is defined as "a leader able to exercise military, economic , and political control over a subnational territory within a sovereign state due to their ability to mobilize loyal armed forces”. The civilizations named in this DLC project were already superior to the concept of “Tribe” or “subnational”, even the civilization with less developed social structure of the mentioned civilizations (Muisca) could be considered in the category of “Tribal Kingdom” (defined “kingdom” because they have a governmental organization with dynastic leaders), in South America there were other Tribal Kingdoms such as the Chachapoyas (Chachas), Huayla and Cajamarca, these tribal kingdoms had a single King but all the “secondary leaders” of the Kingdom only got together for major events like war. Although the concepts may be different due to the cosmology of Europe and South America, in South America there were “equivalents” to Kingdoms: Cuzco (Later Incas), Chanckas, Wankas, Chimú (Later Empire due to the Minchancaman conquests), Quito (Cañaris), Aymaras (the Aymara kingdoms), among others. Obviously there were also Empires: Incas, Chimú, Wari and Tiwanako (only these 4 as far as I know). So the term “Warchief” would not apply to the named South American civilizations:

Empire > Kingdom > Tribal Kingdom > Tribes.

(EU4)

• Military system: The military organization of the imperial and monarchical civilizations had a general staff (generals, officers, non-commissioned officers, etc.), the equipment of their soldiers used to be class-oriented and standardized (according to the regions from which the soldiers came), For more information you can watch this video (Spanish). Tribal monarchy civilizations might have some kind of semi-independent military organization but they still had a sense of belonging to their tribal kingdom, the tribes rarely came together completely and usually dissolved again once a crisis was over (they had no concept of kingdom or nation) which is why the leaders of Tribes or Warchief during a conflict could independently choose which side to support or even remain completely neutral (the last campaign scenario of Age of Empires III: The WarChiefs - Shadow explains this concept well) . It should also be noted that there were also mercenary armies in pre-Columbian America (there are details of this in chronicles of the Cuzco-Chanka war, the Cuzqueños had hired a large number of mercenaries to match the number of the Chanka army).

Military technology: the distribution of weapons was class-based, the nobles wore the best armor and the commoners equipped themselves with what they could (in the case of the Incas, the state equipped its commoner soldiers). The imperial and monarchical civilizations had weapons production centers (“smithies”), in the tribal civilizations the weapons were made by the warriors themselves (or so I understand). In South America the use of metallic armor (copper and bronze) was common, although these were reserved for the nobility and elite divisions (as in Europe), it is known that the best weapons and metallic armor in South America (and possibly in America) they were made by the Chimú (although it should also be noted that many affirm that the best ornamental gold metallurgy was made by the Muiscas) and there were also metallic armor from civilizations such as the Wari; It is known that the Incas also used metallic armor (Pura-Pura) that went under or over the padded armor, although this was mainly for the elite troops. So how do you think the world would take a DLC featuring pre-Columbian civilizations with UUs clad in metallic armor?


Padded armor should not be underestimated either, it served its purpose well and provided mobility for soldiers that metal armor could not offer.


Ichcahuipilli

Even Europeans still wore padded armor in the pre-renaissance.

Oh… and the Incas knew iron (they didn’t melt it), but they only used it for ceremonial and cosmetic purposes, after contact with the Spanish they learned to make iron and gunpowder weapons. As an extra fact, the nobles used bronze weapons and armor bathed in gold and silver.

Eagle Warrior:
In South America there are also representations of “Winged Warriors”, many of them representing Eagles (although it should be noted that some civilizations such as the Incas saw the condor as a superior animal), and although it is feasible to create a regional unit called “Warrior Condor” I consider that the “Eagle Warrior” should be maintained as a regional unit of the Americas because the characteristics of the Eagle Warrior can still be explored, diversified and expanded; in the AoE 2 HD era the Eagle Warrior only aspired to differentiate itself (according to civilization) by modifying its cost or base statistics (armor, HP, attack, speed, etc.), but in the AoE 2 DE era there can be a great variety of characteristics for the Eagle Warrior that overcome the old mechanical and historical limitations. It occurs to me:

Eagle Warrior with range and melee attack capacity: Chimu
560dd54be53ddb1041dc09afb6855f14

Eagle Warrior with an evolution Superior to the elite: Aztec, Eagle Knight
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Eagle Warrior with parallel evolution (as in the case of the Hussar/Winged Hussar): Incas/Tiwanaco (Elite Eagle Warrior / Condor Warrior)
Condor Warrior

Eagle Warriors turned into Trash Units: Chanka
kero con posible escenificación de la guerra contra los chankas, en Ramos Gómez 2002 884

There are several other possibilities: Attack bonus against archers, ability to dodge melee attacks (Shrivamsha), Carry Capacity (Coustillier), trample damage (Druzhina), Return to life as a lesser unit (Konnik) and many other variants. This gives the possibility of a general rework of the American civilizations in case there is any DLC focused on pre-Columbian civilizations, although it is unlikely that the classic civilizations so loved as the Mayan and the Aztec will undergo any type of change.

SIEGE UNITS:
The appearance of the Siege Elephant can start the possibility of regional modifications of Siege units:
Ram → Maceman

Scorpion → Long Arrow

I admit this is unlikely and maybe I’m just starting to get delusional :crazy_face:

SLINGER:
It could be a regional unit, and not only from South America but also from Mesoamerica, it is consistent that the Incas have a superior upgrade to the Slinger, it could even be a “Fire Slinger” that has an Attack bonus against Buildings and Siege Weapons

If the Slinger were a regional unit, there may also be different ways to improve them depending on the civilization (increase statistics, reduce costs, special abilities), I even know that the Kingdom of Chachapoyas had a slinger as a soldier who was able to move between the mountains and the Amazon jungle with ease, could a UU be a slinger that has the ability to move as fast as the Plumed Archer? (can I’m delusional again?)

American Cavalry:
By now everyone knows that the pre-Columbian civilizations adopted the horse in a few years, personally, I don’t like it; there is enough pre-Columbian (medieval) culture and history to incorporate European technologies such as chivalry and gunpowder weapons into American civilizations, even if we are more fussy it is known that civilizations such as the Inca, Chimú and Chanka learned to ride horses, melt iron and make gunpowder still in AoE 2 timeframe; and if we are even more picky many nobles from these American civilizations were taken to Europe and given chivalrous titles, (still in the timeframe), so if they want to “live on the historical edge” to justify access to European technology units in American civilizations then the logical thing would be to give the possibility of giving access to Cavalier, Paladins and gunpowder units to some of these American civilizations.

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images



(The latter is Inca Garcilazo de la Vega)

However, the concept of a “regional cavalry unit for pre-Columbian civilizations” could be interesting and coherent if there is a game mechanic to justify it (converting stables, a regionally developable technology in the castle, etc.), it could even be a more realistic unit than the Xolotl Warrior, could be an “American Horseman” (dressed in pre-Columbian armor) and some civilizations might have access to “Elite American Horseman” (dressed in Spanish armor, this could be accessible to civilizations such as the Inca and the Aztec). I clarify that this idea is interesting, but personally I like the idea of pre-Columbian civilizations without chivalry more to give greater emphasis to the medieval nature of the game.

Conquest of America:
I know that many people continue to believe that the Incas, the largest empire in the Americas, was conquered by Spain when Atahualpa was captured in the battle of Cajamarca… although it was not really Spain, but the Crown of Castile… nor was Atahualpa proclaimed “Inca” (Emperor )… and “the battle of Cajamarca” was not a battle, it was actually an ambush to which Atahualpa agreed to go in a drunken state, to which he thought he was going to an interview and ceremony with only some poorly armed soldiers who were still celebrating the capture of Huascar… and it was not in a single battle, there were more than 100… and the conquest did not end when Atahualpa was executed, the conquest process lasted almost 40 years… And the entry of Francisco Pizarró basically meant the extension of the War Inca civil…

Imagine this: the French Revolution, the Black Death, the American Civil War and an “alien invasion”… all this in less than 10 years… That is approximately what happened in South America:

  1. Huayna Cápac dedicated his entire life to extinguishing rebellions, rebellions of states as important as the Chimú, Wankas and Chachapoyas (it is even believed that Huayna Cápac was actually poisoned by his “doctor” of the kingdom of Chachapoyas).
  2. A series of pandemics that killed about 90% of the population, diseases brought by Europeans.
  3. The civil war of the Inca Empire, the North against the South; it may never be known how many soldiers died in the fratricidal war.
  4. “Alien Invasion”: Being contacted by a technologically superior civilization, the nightmare of many, happened in America.

If I manage to have time available I will write about the mechanical improvements that this DLC concept could have and possible campaigns. For now, I greet the author of this topic and also @ JCC3001 for his contributions. I also greet all the members who were interested in pre-Columbian civilizations from the beginning.

PS: I haven’t slept in 48 hours so I’m kind of euphoric :crazy_face:, if anyone thinks I’ve made a mistake or missed something, please let me know.

Happy May 1st!, especially to the AoE development team :grin:

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This is one of the best ideas for an expansion I have ever seen.

1 Like

This is like 5 food discount on scale mail armor, 15 food and 11 gold on chain mail armor xD Its a negligible bonus.

So they generate half a wood per second after bow-saw and 10x more gold ?? I suppose you meant to say 5 gold per minute.

Like the concept of Chimu maceman but other than that you need to suggest some balanced civ bonuses to the teams.

And what did the Natives invented that put them on par with other Civs? I’m excluding, the Incas, Mayans and Aztecs, fyi.

Why no Mayan campaign?

Andean DLC

For an andean DLC I think we need an andean architectural set because the central american set fit very bad with the inca castle, because of this the Pachacuti campaign is visually the ugliest of all.

Andean architectural set with a new sail type
Andean monk skin
Andean trade cart skin : a “trade cart” without cart, instead of the cart there is a man who walk with a llama. Or at least put a trade with a llama instead of the horse.

Chincha raft
Long range boat like the galleon canon because the american civilizations lack long range boat.

New regional unit

Chasqui Remove the eagle warrior and create a new regional unit who fit the same role. With this we can reserve the eagle warrior for mesoamerican civilizations to differentiate them more of the andean civilizations.

New units (can be regional unit or unique unit)

Andean maceman : andean used many of this weapon
Bolas warrior : ranged infantry who slow down his opponent
Poison archer : an archer who deal progressive damage after hit

Slinger can became regional unit because there were use by many andean civilization

Civilizations
One or two andean civilization + mapuche

Mapuche
I think mapuche are good because we have writhed record of them and they fight against the incas and the spanishs.

I propose two UU, those of AoE3 :

Ironwood Clubman : a footed infantry available at the castle. Maybe a bonus against cavalry and gunpowder unit with an area of effect ? Low armor.

Bolas Rider : mounted ranged unit who slow down is opponent. Low armor. trained at the stable.

The mapuches have access to stable but can train only light cavalry and their unit the bolas rider. In campaign who take place before they adopt the horse we can inactivate their stable and they still have access at their footed UU in the castle. They have two cavalry units, one melee and the other ranged.

Feature to add in order to improve the visual effect

Cliff

There is many cliff in the Andes so I propose 3 type of cliff

Grass cliff : A type of cliff with grass, there is cliff like this on the right side of the Inca wonder

Terrace cliff : there is many terrace in the Andes, there is cliff like this on the central and the left side of the Inca wonder

Inca wall cliff : The Incas build many fortress like the fortress of Sacsayhuamán, there is cliff like this on the inca castle.

Passing through cliff

But having cliff need a way to pass them

Stone stairs An object we can put on the cliff like the waterfall. With this we can pass through cliff

Rope bridge : The incas build many rope bridge and some of them are still rebuild every year since century. A new type of bridge with only 1 case of width.

Destroyed rope bridge Useful ins enario, you search a way in the montain and discover a destroyed rope bridge, you can search another way with your army. Also an animation with fire and smoke to transform a rope bridge in a destroyed rope bridge.

Tree
Araucaria tree
Cactus tree
Polylepis tarapacana tree

Animal

Cougar : there is no wolf or jaguar in the Andes but there is congar, an animal who be use from Alaska to Patagonia. Also can useful in campaign who take place in central America

Guanaco : hunting game
Nandu : hunting game

Alpaca : herding game. Give less food than a llama

Terrain type

Araucaria forest : no mapuche civilization without this tree

Cactus forest : a forest made of cactus from the Leucostele atacamensis specie. There is cactus like this on the Isla Incahuasi in the Salar de Uyuni.

Polylepis forest : Polylepis tarapacana is a tree who can grow on the Altiplano

Salt pan : there is many salt pan in the Andes, the most famous is the Salar de Uyuni

Reed island : On the lake of Titicaca there is floating islands made of reed who are inhabited by the Uru people.

Red lake : A type of salt lake like the Laguna Colorada. The water is red because of red microalga.

Embelishment

Andean condor : a flying bird, no andean DLC without this iconic bird.
Condor rock : like the panda rock this animated rock feature a condor nest with a condor who fly before returning to his nest

Intihuatana : a type of carved stone. There is one on the top of the inca castle. Dev can just cut and copy this stone.

Inca ruin
Inca stone fence : a little stone wall like many in the game, no higher than the hedge.
Inca statue

Reed house : a type of house made by the Uru people
Reed canoe : a little unit canoe

Chemamüll : mapuche totem pole
Rehue : mapuche totem pole

Puya raimondii : type of plant
Flamingo : if we put red lake we can put flamingo who live here