They’re still good, they have a much higher siege now as well, I’ve been trying to do some kind of tower rush with them as germany as they get the 3 inquisitor card and that enables them to be trained from outposts.
ok the more I digest this the more otto already needs some massive nerfs
The new cav trades 20% less atk for a massive 50% increased attack speed and 5 less HP and more speed
it basically wins all cav fights in age 2 - I see that they are designing some sort of balkans theme since this is similar to the boyar native unit but as a unit that doesnt have a build limit this needs a lot of changes
reduced food cost and more coin but that makes it combo even better with jans
its an absolute monster - not to mention in age 4 it gains 10% melee armour after another shipment
Attack needs to be like 20-22 and HP be like 300 for this to be comparable
the azaps need a multiplier nerf on the range side, it does x2.6 times the damage to goons compared to skirm type untis so it gives basically unparalled protection for otto cav and artillery against goon masses
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Indeed, the attack speed should be like 1.25 not 1, it’s way too fast currently, 25% faster instead of 20% more attack would be fine. I think if they change that then the units ok, no need to go changing everything about it.
The age 4 card is fine, isn’t it an expensive team card and 10% melee resist is nothing crazy for an age 4 card.
The azaps need a cost increase and they’ll be ok I think, I agree that they should also have the ranged cav multiplier reduced a bit though not too much because these were made to fix the otto weakness to goons.
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it also give 4 team spahi so there are some pretty beefy units the ability to resist their counters more
Since its also team there are potentially dangerous combos - like lifidis with 25% melee resist or mahouts with 20 melee resist
it will also be dangerous for certain maps - like say a map with sudanese natives so another additional 10% resist.
tbh with the abus changes im not even sure otto has a goon weakness anymore since they just do the flat damage now and dont do range damage (and the rof change) so they deal 18 dmg per pop at base which is basically the same as a skirmisher and since upgrades are % base they effectively are just normal skirmishers now
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Delis are more expensive for a reason, ha? They cost more total resources and higher gold fee makes trouble with abus training. Since spahis are not trainable, this is the right direction for Ottomans.
Nevertheless, 1 attack speed can be nerfed to 1.2 and damage can be increased to 28. That can be an option.
Azaps… I think players dont use them too much, only in specific occasions at supremacy. They are smashed by anything else than cavarly, no multipurpose at all. Also remember that abus guns were nerfed reasonably against LC. And yes, they are expensive, trained slowly and cost 2 pop. This is the weakness.
eh they got buffed, not nerfed. They removed the multiplier but also removed the negative multiplier against all cav for hand cav only.
The net effect is that Abus do more damage then before
they cost the same total resource and only shifts around 10 food into 10 coin which is minuscule and works to compliment jans as well so its not a nerf by any strech
right you need infantry or cannons to kill them, which is what abus specilsed at since they basically kill all infantry and cannons
its a recipe for an unkillable death ball
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dude theyre not, i mean they have 8 atk X4 against light cav with 1.5 ROF, so 32 atk against light cav and X2 because 1.5 ROF, 64 atk against light cav… and in melee its 10 X4 against cav so 40 atk, its not ok at all, and also basically this unit kill every single weakness otto can have aka goons and mobility, just why making jan now when you have basically a unit ( 40f 40w ) who kill every single counter otto can have
Again this unit is not ok at all and the simple fact they deal 64 damage against light cav age 2 without upgrade you know its not legit, even if you increase the cost, also just imagine MU like lakota otto who basically was heavy favoured lakota before, look at now ahah, same exemple for otto ger etc
Also what the point to eliminate every single weakness for each civ, then lets give insane eco for hauds because their eco are bad !!!, just imagine
Weakness for each civ is a part of his design so no, no need to decimate every single weakness really, its a bad choice for the game
3 Likes
Replying you by phone so sorry for not quoting. 
The multiplier change at abus is only there for a clearer multiplier setup. Basically, there are 2 cav type and instead of ±, they r clearer now. So yeah, nerf and buff at the same time. I can argue about abus gun forever because it was unfair anyways for a unit which costs a lot and gold-heavy, costs 2 pop, trained slowly and requires artillery founder to have 3.5 rof. Their health remained same and even these new hc cards make them only reliable now at late game. They were awful before at late game and now they r more or less same at early game.
Regarding delis, I meant that gold cost is higher and theoretically it costs more due to slow gold gathering ratio. However, as I mentioned above, slightly slower attack with a higher damage can fix the problem of having too fast damage output.
And lastly, yes abus is needed to have a reliable duo with azaps and it has price to pay. Abus is a unique unit, actually a very unique one so it is what it is for me. They are not tanks, they have counters and they are not unkillable.
If no one likes the original AOE3 at all why did they remake it?
2 Likes
Maybe because Bruce Shelley liked it so much?
I dont think you have done the math on abus, there has been a change to their damage output vs light cav and it has gone up
Before they had a 1.5 multi vs light cav and a x0.5 multi vs generic cav which worked out to a x0.75 net multiplier vs light cav ( since all light cav (except the siege ele) also have the generic cav tag). with an atk of 40 they deal 40*0.75 per shot which is 30 so it works out to 15 per pop. Which was lower then a skirmisher and it was bad before (not even accounting for ROF)
Now they have no multi vs light cav and only a 0.5 multi against hand cav so their damage is just the atk value, so it 36 so that works out to 18 per pop. Which is the same as a base skirmisher. It has effectively received a 20% damage boost against light cav with this change. The weakness vs goon is basically gone.
at the mid level and above and in team games they were already a terror even with the 3.5 rof cause they basically kill everything when massed and with any sort of melee cover just can just attack with no worries so you dont need to worry that they are frail cause nothing is getting close.
Jan Abus age 2 -3 is effectively a terror now.
It has its downsides but the recent change is a massive net buff. its arguably a better unit now then it was back in TAD
Yeah but the numbers will need to be about the same as a hussar damage output wise, so you arent getting higher atk then 25 without increase the attack speed to atleast 1.25
which is? cause azaps cost only 80 resources, deal x2.6 time damage of skirms against light cav and can tank against melee cav up close.
Abus kill any infantry due to dealing siege damage and still do 18 damage per pop at base to artillery while skirms deal 11.
add in cannons or even the new grenade unit ( which also counters artillery) and what actually kills this?
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jan abus xD just try Azap abus ahah, why making jans 
In age 2 to me its arguably annoying and since there are no goons its technically weaker then jan abus
age 3 yeah no contest actually azap abus murders
half of civ has goons age 2 now, also its cheaper and its a pike and add more mobility, ofc not saying you have to Azap against brit
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They seemed to go over the cliff w otto on this patch. You have no choice but rush them.
I kinda that azap/humbaraci pair up better in age 2. Azaps are like pikeman that can also counter ranged cav, but they have alot less siege damage and a bit less raw hp - better at winning fights vs cav and other pikes but cant accomplish much after when buildings need burning and cav/abus dont add much for that.
Humbaraci cover most of the weaknesses here; massive siege attack and still fairly strong vs age 2 heavy inf. In spite of the patch description saying they’re ‘weaker’ vs inf relative to generic grens, they have more attack, range and movespeed and really can handle age 2 heavy infantry and even the rare artillery.
This comp is vulnerable to light infantry, sure, but its fun as heck since all units are so darn fast.
3 Likes
Yeah Humbaraci are awesome despite them being ‘weaker’ against infantry, in reality they’re still good against infantry they just can’t shots and arrows as well but trashing buildings and smashing falconets is fun.
But Azap are just pikemen except they don’t have good siege and don’t have cover mode which means they’re even more vulnerable to range damage than pikemen are.
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Bruh what ? xD
Pikeman can shoot ?
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Nope, pero con el parche de ahora tienen más rango cuerpo a cuerpo que el azap parece ser y descubri que el tiene una animación que no va de hit an run es la misma que la del arquero de tiro largo solo que vulnerable a los escaramuzadores xd
The azaps need a cost increase because they do what pikes do and counter light cav even better than xbows yet cost 40 food and 40 wood.
Xbow do 2x damage to light cav IIRC and these azaps do 4x. All that being said they are low hp heavy infantry units, so they lose hard to light infantry and artillery, musk probably clean them up as well.
Lower light cav multiplier and increase cost and the units fine.
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