AoE IV disappointment. .?

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
81

I bet too. It will be the best Age of Empires game, if not then would come very close to the perfection- Age of Empires 2.

You know why I have high hopes? Cuz good people are working on it. Adam Isgreen alone gave me like 60% confidence, guy has worked on C&C games. And of course, Relic, arguably, the best RTS making companies around. And then Shannon Loftis, who is like the biggest Age fanatic, who playtested every age of empires games except 1 and online.

You all are still hanging on the graphics belt, I am looking forward to the overhaul of old gameplay plus modern RTS mechanics like terrain, siege, walling, and who knows what else they’re hiding.

Pin it. I will buy you any $60 game if I lose, if I win, then I win. Give me nothing.

Also, Age 3 wasn’t a bust. People still play it.

https://steamcharts.com/app/105450

Many of the good named RTS games have died, Age 3 has not. Heck, even Age online has people and so much people that some fans of that game revived the whole game with project celeste. I can go on and on really. Anyways, its a bet then.

Edit: Forgot about the Forgotten Empires people, they will also contribute to the next age games as they are revamping the definitive editions.

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82

So what would you basically “change” ??? Because most of the people complain if they touch this or change that… Where did Age 2 stopped for you and what would you do next without having people complaining about?
You can follow Age II style and so people will complain because it’s a greedy copy. Change it and they will complain because it has different stuff in it.

Therefore, again, there is no thing you can actually do in a game without pissing off someone. It’s impossible to please everyone.
They can make the game exactly like you want and i bet you everything that there will be mad people comming after you, saying you are doing things badly, and everything is wrong.
Meanwhile, if the game is fun to play, and have the Age of Empires spirit, i’m ok with that and open to changes, even if doesn’t feel like Age 2, wich i would be glad for it. Each Age has to have their own identity.

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83

Yeah, people will always make the noise, no matter what devs do. A game whether it is bad or good, has its audience no matter what. Games are like politics, you can’t persuade everyone. Just give them hope, and excuse to love it or hate it.

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84

I see simply this mistake happening all the time, everywhere, it doesn’t matter if a game or movie, they simply lack a “plot” for the project.

“A plot is a literary term for the main events in a story. It’s also known as the storyline. The plot is created by the story’s author, who arranges actions in a meaningful way to shape the story.”

While in old times, the designer did make a solid, fluent and connected work.
Today they all simply throw ideas at the audience, with vague till no connection between the ideas.

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85

How can you say it? We have nothing but a glorified cinematic gameplay trailer. You don’t know the “plot”, nor how it plays. Ensemble is dead my man. But, people at the forgotten empires, who are fans like us, will also be involved and are involved in the new definitive age games and next age game.

Age of empires is not a single players linear game. It is open ended game. I think you are comparing hen egg to crow egg. Not valid comparison.

86

I will believe that when the game be finally released, and after hours of playing it you still think the same.
I don’t know if Age IV will be good or Bad. Not saying that’s epic nor a failure, but i really like what i see at the moment and i’m cool with it

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87

Roger that I’ll hold u to it once this game is finished. …in probably the next 4 years, and when it bombs in reviews :stuck_out_tongue: hahaha hey! Don’t get my.wrong I’m a huge Age and Relic game fan, but I have eyes and that trailer is the whole reason to this thread.

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I think the main point of AoE2, it is a pure fluent Base Build Strategy game,
you can always play the game, you are not prevented by some bad design flaws.

The gameplay of AoE2 does
-very good provide you with resources, to build the base you want,
-the base does provide you with the units you need,
-the units do make the task they have to.

Games these days, just do completely mess up basics.
Developers are so blindly focused to make some odd and weird “new design and gameplay ideas”,
they do completely forget to make gameplay good in the first place.

Problem is, we know how good were their last games, where they have been “creative”.
And it doesn’t look to me like they did learn anything from their last projects.

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89

Done, I have taken the screenshot. I will fulfill the promise if I lose the bet. If the aggregate critical & user scores for the next age game are not above 80, then I lose.

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90

Cool beans :slight_smile: And if I lose I’ll buy you a copy of the game OK. I do hope it’s going to be a good game and the best Aoe game of all, but I just can’t help but feel it’s gonna suck from what we have been shown and after waiting for something for so long. There is so much hype for this game, and I feel they failed by going back in time with the era shown, and not continuing to represent word Empires as they have progressed through history and in the different time eras that each different age game represents.

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91

Dude, I know how shit the game mechanics are these days. But reading interviews, and Adam responses to watering down the Age formulas, I don’t think:

Yes, Ensemble guys made best games because they had a policy that devs have to playtest the game every week for some hours. World’s Edge, Pro Age players, Relic are doing that too, I read that in the X0 19 interview. Relic has the budget, so calm down a bit. It won’t be ruined. Have faith. You have seen nothing so far about Age 4.

92

No no, you buy nothing :smiley:

I also wanted the game setting to move on. But they went with what people voted the most in the poll, medieval era. One reason I got excited about Age of Empires with Relic was their excellent expertise with WW games. And according to the booklet, next age game “supposed” to be the WW game too. But we know that those were just speculations, even Bruce Shelby, the former Ensemble employee confirmed that. The settings were mere speculations.

But don’t forget, Age 3 biggest problem was balancing with guns vs swords. And I think they’ve made a right decision to pull back to the much wider medieval setting in Age 4. Age 2 was well balanced game. And as I said, good guys are working and playtesting the games, so I have faith in Age 4.

Comparisons gonna happen no matter what. If it was WW game, then to Company of Heroes games, then that would bring haters from their fans too. And since it is a medieval game, it will be compared to the Age 2, at least all of the haters will be homegrown right here LOL!!

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93

Well said…we are just gonna have to play the waiting game…I’ll still hold faith too, until we all play it we won’t know for sure if it will be good or bad. You seem to be very knowledgeable on the whole subject and since there are some major devs on board I’ll have to trust in their judgement too.

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94

here is a thing, I see as possible flaw and a big one.
-less factions than AoE2, because they have to be different.
DoW3 had also fewer factions than DoW1. Same goes for AoE Online , AoE3, that had less factions than AoE2.

Ok, at what price is it achieved?
Usually we do see a faction to be not playable, because it is not valuable to be played. Due to missing technologies, units or buildings other factions do have. And that means have less strategy options for the game.

It’s a so common problem to balance it for the RTS Genre, I wonder why they still try to copy Starcraft. They won’t get additional 1 or 3 years development to flesh out their ideas.

AoE2 gameplay was design way before this Starcraft Design Dogma started.
Did RTS genre really profit from having different factions?
Why not continue rather the ideas of AoE2?
Where factions have proper technology, unit and building access?

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95

It a deal, I read and watch everything and anything Age of Empires. Plus guys here post stuff I don’t know, so that’s also interesting. I hope there better be a good game in next two to three years that you want to buy :slight_smile: Dragon Age 4, Elder Scrolls, anything, I would get you, if I lose.

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96

Starcraft 1 and 2 have only 3 factions and was (and still is) one of the biggest competitive RTS games in the scene in the world. With only 3 factions.

If you ask me and is just my opinion, sc1 and Age 2 were such a success not just for being great games but also at the time they were launched.
You can make Age IV with 45 different and well balanced civilizations if you want and it won’t change anything. It won’t have the same succes, ever. Times are different now. The audience is diverse and there are too many types of games and genre and people spread around it. Even if Age IV is better than Age II don’t expect to sell the same amount than Age 2 did.

We can’t compare Age II and Age IV because the times are different and you won’t have equalty in conditions to make a fair comparision.

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97

And adding to your post, this:

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98

I do not doubt the success from Starcraft and other RTS Blizzard did make,
but did anybody else ever profit from their design?
Who else can just go ahead and delay release of the game for 2 years?

Why does AoE4 have to be “inspired” by Starcraft ? Problem is, this way it has been done in last decade without a doubt. How are we going to benefit from 20 year old Starcraft mobile base mechanic for mongols? It is going to be either not valuable on small maps or overpowered on large maps.

I mean each time we see “a company not called Blizzard” try to make a Strategy game with different factions, we don’t see people to like it.

Best example would be Relic here who work on AoE4. Dawn of War 1 was a so nice game, with many comparable factions. DoW3 flopped almost instant and has less people actively play it, than a game released over 10 years earlier.

I liked to play by DoW1 the Orc faction, as I started DOW3 I wondered if it was from same company.
The DOW3 Orc faction did not have long ranged sniper and jet pack Units, while they had something like that in DOW1 Flash Gitz for Snipers and Stormboyz for jet pack Units, it was completely missing in DOW3. As I did mainly play vs fast Eldar faction, I wondered why they were not added, as the other faction Marines still had snipers and jet pack units. Again, they already did leave out to add a fourth faction like in the first installment of DoW1 and each remaining faction had less units than their counterparts from older game.

So I wonder, do they really not realize that Starcraft concept is not a good one?

And you are right, it has been 9 years, since we did see a successful RTS with different factions, but it was only Starcraft 2, but it was delayed and delayed for several years.

Why can’t AoE4 be like a modern Total War where you have many of comparable factions and lots of units? They are even today very, very successful, even if their game series isn’t “creative”.

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99

I just hope for the sake of you that Age IV don’t release with 12 civilizations at launch because i don’t know what are you going to do with the “faction amount” theory and all this words.
I don’t see Isgreen kind of a troll person but, 12 is still fewer than 13… or even 10.

Talking seriously, i don’t think they are going to release the game with 3 civs only like Starcraft or DoW III so relax. I think the number will fall between 8 and 11. And 2 or 3 civs less than Age 2 is not that big deal to make all this mess

100

Problem is not simply how many factions are in the game, but how many strategies are accessible to a faction. In my opinion many RTS with different factions just did not handle it well.

Where certain strategies are not accessible, simply because factions don’t have access to units, buildings, abilities or upgrades that able to perform those strategies.

Like I already did discuss in other thread the Janissary by Ottomans and Aztec in AoE3.
Yes, there are “work arounds”, but that isn’t strategical or variety.
https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/how-should-civilizations-be-designed-by-aoe4/

The chances are very high such “design” might be in AoE4.
-like have faction with no access to walls
-like have faction with no access to artillery
-like have faction with no access to cavalry
-like have faction with no access to anti blob units

Problem is, once the decision is made, factions have to be different and release can not be delayed, we might see them repeating those too common mistakes.

Shouldn’t AOE4 be taken as an opportunity to set things right,
instead of repeat same mistakes all over again?

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