AoE2 devs: Please stop trying to experiment and just listen to the community

Im also trying to find information on how it works backwards or at least a list on what was considered to put a game on this or that tag.
For 2DE, tho, the amount of skeletons is so restricted that PEGI-12 should be enough

1 Like

Is the amount of skeletons a factor whether to achieve PEGI-12? Do you know of a game which has been denied 12 rating because of it or of an official PEGI guideline which states this?

I’m still trying to find the PEGI rating of HD to no avail. Both chatgpt and co-pilot say it’s 12 but chatgpt is completely untrustworthy on the accuracy of these things and co-pilot couldn’t give me any actually corroborating sources.

Apparently according to Gamersglobal.de, HD Edition also has a PEGI 12 rating:
Age of Empires 2 - HD Edition für PC - Steckbrief | GamersGlobal.de

2 Likes

"PEGI 12

Video games that show violence of a slightly more graphic nature towards fantasy characters or non-realistic violence towards human-like characters would fall in this age category. Sexual innuendo or sexual posturing can be present, while any bad language in this category must be mild.

PEGI 16

This rating is applied once the depiction of violence (or sexual activity) reaches a stage that looks the same as would be expected in real life. The use of bad language in games with a PEGI 16 rating can be more extreme, while the use of tobacco, alcohol or illegal drugs can also be present."
Source: What do the labels mean? | Pegi Public Site

I don’t know any game denied a PEGI 12 for despiction of violence, but from what those labels say, I concluded that showing a body decaying into a skeleton counts as “despiction of violence […] that looks the same as would be expected in real life”

1 Like

I just found out, AoE 3 DE has a PEGI 16 rating. I guess that’s due to ragdolling units

2 Likes

So that would make it an issue not necessarily about the skeletons, but the decaying corpses (and instead of that we have the undecayed lifeless body just sinking into the ground in DE)

But that’s if we assume that decaying corpses is a definite criterion for the “depiction of violence as would be expected in real life” (whereas we necessarily have to assume at the same time that stabbing other people with swords or shooting them with a rifle, as well as blood appearing afterwards, are not a definite criterion of the same).

At the same time, I would like to note the presence of literally impaled corpses in DE.

Edit: oh and I also found severed heads. But I guess these instances are not realistic enough or… not how you would expect violence in real life…? Idk

1 Like

Apparently according to Gamersglobal.de, HD Edition also has a PEGI 12 rating:
Age of Empires 2 - HD Edition für PC - Steckbrief | GamersGlobal.de

But if we accept with that that HD also had PEGI rating of 12 despite the skeletons and decaying corpses, that does not necessarily rule out that PEGI is the explanation.

Our next step would be to find a change in the PEGI rating criteria between 2013 and 2019 to explain why something was ok one time but not ok another time.

Another possible explanation is that decaying corpses and skeletons are ok for a 12 rating - but only up to 1080p resolution, and once you have it in 4K it’s a no-no(?)

They could have went the extra mile and put 23,844 impaled Turks in the Dracula campaign and go into PEGI16 as a legend.

(We know the exact number is 23,844 because the number is mentioned by Vlad himself in a letter to Matthias Corvinus)

Would have also been quite a shock to the player as well, probably having the same shock that Mehmed II had.

1 Like

Interesting…it has a certain logic…

That’s true…

Ah, so it’s just because it’s PEGI 16…

Put troops and priests in the Ruins to capture them, if it doesn’t work, it will bug and you will have to restart the mission…

Nothing appears…only the 2 DE…

Weird, because the original AoE 3, TWC, TAD, Online and 4 have PEGI 12…

Yes, it’s weird…this is what PEGI says about the game:

Advice for consumers

This game has been rated PEGI 12 for depictions of non-realistic looking violence towards human-like and animal-like characters, and use of mild bad language. Not suitable for persons under 12 years of age.

Content specific issues

This game contains frequent depictions of non-realistic looking violence towards human-like and animal-like characters. The violence in this game consists of units from opposing armies engaging in combat primarily using traditional weapons such as swords, spears and projectiles. The reactions to the violence are unrealistic in nature, as the strikes often do not connect, and no injuries appear on their bodies. When a character has been defeated they let out a painful cry and then quickly fall to the floor. Their bodies then remain on the battlefield for a short time before fading away. This game also contains infrequent use of mild bad language. The word “bastard” can be found in the dialogue.

In which campaign do the characters say “bastard”?..

That is true, in addition to the fact that in the campaigns of Genghis Khan and Timur you carry out true genocides (in Timur says that in his conquest of Persia he killed 2 million people)… how AoE 2 DE is PEGI 12?..

Point is, I don’t know whether what I’m saying about China is right or wrong, but a lot of people here seem fairly certain that China will allow Tibet. According to none other than @Juggernaut8704 this of course makes me sinophobic somehow. Apparently: thinking Chinese government wants to ban things = you #### ### ####### people. The Chinese government must pay him somehow else I don’t understand the bias.

How influential is PEGI 12 or PEGI 16 really? I imagine these days more people buy digital rather than physically. And even when I was a child, I never heard anyone making such a big mess about whether something is PEGI 12 or PEGI 16, it all seems to random to me.

I would guess AoE2 HD is pegi 12 but don’t quote me on that.

Come on, the AoE2’s deaths are already a meme, how can you call that "a painful cry and then quickly fall to the floor’, it’s 90% funny, 10% ugh.

But this “Their bodies then remain on the battlefield for a short time before fading away.” is likely the reason for the skeletons, if this is a thing in PEGI 12-16, I can understand Microsoft’s reasoning.

Yes, it was genocide, but they don’t mention it as genocide. Based on that reasoning every WW2 would be PEGI 16 by default because both the #### and the communist commited genocide. So I guess the issue is showing genocide rather than there histoically being a genocide.

It’s sinophobic because you have no clue if China is behind this or that, though you still blame it as the main cause for those questions. You are just preaching some “bad chinese tyrannical party is behind this” like a gospel.

See, you have material evidence that World’s Edge doesnt want the game to be more mature leaning - chat censorship, few depictions of violence, both graphically and verbally - but you refuse to believe a rating system has anything to do with that. China, on the other hand… ¯\(ツ)

1 Like

You don’t consider the CCP to be a bad tyrannical party? Or do you deny that the CCP is in control of the PRC? Am I sinophobic to refuse conflating Chinese people with the CCP?

I’m bamboozled by your retort honestly, the most contrarian thing I find in @Player870583437 's post is “Apparently: thinking Chinese government wants to ban things = you #### ### ####### people. The Chinese government must pay him somehow else I don’t understand the bias.”

Are you seriously disputing the general characterisation that the Chinese government wants to ban things? Really? Or the fact that Mainland China is a big market, or the fact that that market is regulated by an authoritarian government?

“I don’t know whether what I’m saying about China is right or wrong”

This hardly seems like gospel to me. When you preach gospel, you don’t preface with I don’t know whether this is right or wrong.

“you refuse to believe a rating system has anything to do with that.” Do they, though? Do they, really? Didn’t they literally ask further about the PEGI explanation?

“How influential is PEGI 12 or PEGI 16 really?”
This is a perfectly fair question to ask. If you’re conducting a discussion in good faith you either explore this question or you don’t but framing this as refusal to believe that a rating system has anything to do with this is hardly credible.

Honestly, the one preaching gospel seems to be you here, reacting to questions as “refusal” and calling people -“phobic” out of the blue. The unironical willingness to actually use the term sinophobia regarding the Chinese government (which you simply name “China” in your response) also suggests to me you’re either ignorant victim to tankie rhetoric or a tankie yourself.

They don’t know whether China is behind this or that? No, they even literally said so themselves. You don’t know whether the rating system is behind this or that either. We all just have various possible explanations we’re discussing here. None of us know the reason for the decay change.

And honestly, I don’t really hold your “material evidence” (chat filter? really?) any more credible to that PEGI must be behind the decay change than any other circumstance possibly suggesting the censorship explanation.

3 Likes

Do you know what sinophobic means or like to throw words around?

Having people who think that feeling negative towards the government means feeling negative towards the country or the people is every dictator’s dream.

I can’t believe you non-ironically think knowing that the Chinese government is an authoritarian regime who likes to ban things makes you sinophobic. I guess reality must be sinophobic then ¯*(ツ)* /¯

You talk about me like I preach gospel when I said it’s a possibility, and it is a great possibility given the Chinese government, that you refuse to believe is real or else you’re sinophobic ¯*(ツ)* /¯, which is 10x better than saying this definitely won’t happen as if you are expert on China or something, I have possibilities you have a definite judgement you know nothing about, seems like you are the one preaching gospel here by talking despite having no clue.

See, I wish I had 20% of your jumping to conclusions skill, because wanting to avoid PEGI 12 is a legit possibility, so I genuinely asked how influential is PEGI 12 or PEGI 16? but somehow, you either like to dishonestly frame things/love to jump to conclusions (maybe both) so you took it as some sort of refusal to believe that a rating system could have anything to do with it.

You could have all the material evidence in the world and still reach the wrong conclusion if you jump to conclusions, and you certainly don’t lack in that department.

2 Likes

Regarding the skeletons, I’ve always assumed it was about reducing the number of unnecessary animations and calculations to avoid slowing down the game, since they also removed idle animations and I don’t think a horse snorting or a soldier toying with his weapon go against Chinese censorship or any PEGI restrictions. That being said, they also added building destruction animations, which was kind of a step in the opposite direction.

The outro of “The Horde Rides West” says" *Separate mountains were made of the skulls of men, women, children, horses, dogs, and cats." Do you really need the word genocide to be explicitely mentioned for it to be suddenly extremely dark?

1 Like

Every medieval and modern war results in “Separate mountains were made of the skulls of men, women, children, horses, dogs, and cats”, this doesn’t necessarily imply genocide. You wouldn’t know that Genghis Khan and Timur caused genocide by playing AoE2.

Absolutely not, what the hell? If people have kept records of the Mongols amassing so many skulls and sorting them out by age, gender and species and still have enough of each category to build mountains, it was specifically because it was over the top (no pun intended but I still keep it) even for the times.

4 Likes

In fact, I play Crusader Kings more, since I love role playing better.

Yes, it is a whole issue between the age rating, the complaints of the Chinese government and the fact that we cannot judge medieval expansions as genocides…

You don’t understand the difference between ‘as far as the game tells you’ and ‘reality’. PEGI doesn’t care about what happened in reality, they only care about as far as the game tells you. Yes, the Mongols caused genocide, but the game doesn’t tell you that. “Separate mountains were made of the skulls of men, women, children, horses, dogs, and cats” doesn’t say “genocide”. You wouldn’t know about the genocide by just playing the game.

Genocide is when you target a specific ethnic group for massacre. The Mongols slaughtered anyone who resisted them.

2 Likes