Aoe3 & AoM comparison

(disclaimer: i didnt play aom and didnt watch a lot of aom youtube content)

How well is aom recieved? From my friendgroup many enjoyed playing aom and ive seen generally very favorable feedback so far, but according to this post (New patch scheduled FOR OCTOBER 24TH)
the playerbase is declining quickly.

Im asking this, because so far our (aoe3) line of argumentation was: “the devs are great, we are small because of bad marketing”

In aom we have a game, that has the same devs and a lot more marketing. So, if true, why is aom losing players?

In my opinion the devs do great work, but maybe we overestimate the effect of marketing? And maybe the factors are more like this?
setting > QoL + features + ballance (aka good devs) > marketing > esports > …

Whats your take?

Because it is a new game. New game = hype = many players come at the start. This leads to a natural drop off after everyone has tried out the game - especially since from what I’ve heard many people got it for the singleplayer which you won’t be playing all the time after the campaign is done.

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Yes, i understand the hype aspect… and the all time peak of aom is higher than aoe3s (so thats the effect of marketing)…
But im more interessted in the retaining of players after the hype and aom is already dropped to our level despite of better marketing

It just reflects how successful AOE-3 is. A game they’re trying to sink has almost the same amount of players as a game that Microsoft wants, isn’t ashamed of, promotes properly, releases polished, and that no one hates.

Add to this that AOM-R is newer.

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Some played only to play the campaigns so once they finished it all they stopped playing.
Some played only to try to qualify for Red Bull Wololo and once they where eliminated they stopped playing.
Some played only to make some videos for youtube for a new game and then they stopped playing.
Some played only to see what it was like and didn’t like it so they stopped playing.
Some played only to get tired of issues with desync, crashes and other bugs so they stopped playing.

Those are things I have seen that have got some people to stop playing AoMR.

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I’ve tried to get into AoM, and honestly, I don’t care much for it. Maybe it’s the heavy emphasis on fantasy creatures, but I have trouble getting into it. The gameplay really feels kind of clunky. Takes too long to build things, the cost of units and buildings doesn’t make sense to me. Nothing feels even as intuitive as AOE3.

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There is a critical shortage of new campaigns in the DLC for AoE3DE. AoMR Chinese DLC already promises a new campaign!

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以下是我个人的看法:
今天的即时战略游戏其实很难吸引「新」玩家——即非即时战略游戏玩家,就我所观察到的情况而言,至少在中国,绝大多数会被神话时代或者其他帝国时代游戏吸引的人,都是原本的帝国时代系列粉丝或者是即时战略游戏玩家。
而这也就意味着——首先,很多玩家会因为自己的美妙记忆,比如青少年时期最喜欢的某款游戏,而选择在今天购买并游玩该游戏的重制版本;另外就是更多非神话时代游戏的老玩家,可能会将这款游戏当做自己熟悉的游戏的变体,正如当初帝国时代2的老玩家无法接受帝国时代3一样,其他帝国时代系列的玩家可能也不愿意接受神话时代中不同于自己最热衷的游戏的设定(比如我在习惯了5人小队训练之后,很难习惯单个士兵训练的缓慢节奏)。
于是由于神话时代原本玩家规模就很小(至少在中国是如此,而且几乎所有的神话时代玩家都同时是帝国时代2或者帝国时代3的玩家),而新加入的玩家在尝试之后也不一定会沉迷其中,因此在短暂的热情散去之后,最终会有相当一部分新加入的玩家放弃这款游戏。最终的结果可能是神话时代的基础玩家群会比原版游戏扩大数倍,但是恐怕不容易维持与帝国时代3同一量级的玩家基数。
以上我都是在从侧面说明这款游戏为什么在短时间内会流失很多玩家。由于自己并非十分专业的玩家,可能也没办法从游戏性上给出原因。
最后我再补充一点:帝国时代4的相对成功,很可能是因为这款游戏不论是从时代背景设定上,还是种种游戏设计的考量上,都是在尽力贴合帝国时代2玩家习惯的基础上进行的翻新和微创新。所以这款游戏能够吸引相当一部分帝国时代2的老玩家,且随着帝国时代四玩家数量逐渐增多,帝国时代2的玩家数量也在逐渐流失。而很明显的对于激进创新的帝国时代3以及背景完全不同的神话时代而言,除了凭借自身的游戏性吸引到热衷于该游戏的玩家之外,很难大规模地转化玩家基数最大的帝国时代2玩家群。

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IIRC AOM has always had a lower playerbase than AOE3.

I think AOM is a bit more pushed out right now becomes it is being released at a time where it really has no real competition. Starcraft 2 is basically dead (which is what took out AOE3 to begin with). AOE4 has fizzled out (which kinda outshined AOE3DE). MOBAs have reached their plateau. All other RTS remasters (aside from AOE2 and AOE3) have been failures. AOE3DE is an old game by this point. All other new RTS games have also been failures.

So it seems the starts aligned for AOMR. Which is something that really didn’t happen with AOE3.

Also AOMR has one of the best, if not the best campaigns of all RTS games (although warcraft 3 campaigns are also pretty good), and this really plays well with single player fans.

However, I think AOMR will have trouble keeping its population. It has less replayability than AOE3, as it has significantly less content and only a few strategies are viable, and this will hurt both SP and MP in the long run. I do not expect more than 2-3 more DLCs until it enters the same level of support as AOE3DE.

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I’m not sure, but I’ve heard it has more players than all the AOEs combined.

SC-2 campaigns are very good. I’d say they might be the most ambitious in RTS history.

至于您提到的第二个问题,也就是我们是否高估了营销。这个问题的前提是您认为社区之所以希望发行方提供更多的营销机会或者活动,是寄望于此举可以扩大玩家群。
我认为这个前提部分正确。足够的营销的确可能影响游戏的活跃度,但考虑到帝国时代3复杂的游戏系统以及上手的难度,这种提升终究是相对少量的,远无法使游戏热度达到帝国时代2的水平。
但是我想更多的人提出这样的建议,或许更多是出于困惑和愤怒。因为过往三年,一系列离谱的事件表明,世界边缘不仅仅不愿意宣传帝国时代3,甚至似乎在刻意「掩盖」这款游戏,相关的证据很多,我看您也是一个熟面孔,也就不再一一列举了,您一定知道我说的是什么。不论在任何场合,他们都完全不愿提及这款游戏。很多玩家想要的仅仅是一个相对公平的待遇,仅仅是「相对的」公平就可以,因为考虑到玩家数量确实不如帝国时代2和4。可如今给更多帝国时代3玩家的感觉就是发行商的种种行为不仅令人费解,甚至都已经不体面了。

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It should be noted that the cooperative mode and the Chinese DLC with its corresponding new gods have not been released, so replayability will be higher. The time in which AoM came out didn’t help it establish itself either.

It’s easier to understand than AoE3 (but harder than AoE2 and 4), so it will have better numbers after the next DLC, there’s no reason for the opposite.

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts! I enjoyed reading the different perspectives a lot

Yes, i agree. My original question is exactly that (though my formulation was a bit misleading apparently :sweat_smile:)
Why is aoe3 outperforming aom despite worse starting conditions and neglect It cant be devs and it cant be marketing

AOE3 makes me feel like I’m in a real frontier world. It’s a living world. The ducks, I tell you it’s the ducks. And the trains. Love the trains.

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I have fond memories of AoM back in my teenage years and I was looking forward to AoMR as someone who skipped AoMEE entirely. While I like AoMR just fine I don’t find skirmish mode as engaging as AoE3. Skirmish is my bread and butter and 3DE does it better than any other.

I’ll check in on AoMR every now and then, as I do with the rest of the Age games. It certainly doesn’t tarnish those good memories I had with it. I think I just grew out of it, whereas AoE3 has been consistent for me since 2005.

The biggest difference I’ve noticed between AoE3DE and AoMR is you can tell the folks at WE actually like and care about AoM whereas I never got that impression with AoE3. At all.

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For me, AoE3’s marketing has nothing to do with why I don’t play AoE3. I just don’t care for the game. They could have the coolest marketing campaign for it, but nothing will bring me back. I played a lot of the original, sometimes begrudgingly. The devs likely did a good job on DE, but it’s not my type of RTS or AoE experience.

For AoM:R, I already played a lot of AoM original. Loved it for quite a while, but grew tired of it. And there’s not much pulling me in to want to buy/play AoM:R, particularly after seeing the marketing trailers. The game doesn’t look as polished or S-tier as I’d want. If it did, I’d probably buy and enjoy it for a while, despite having very little desire to re-play AoM with a new coat of paint.

I wanted an AoM:2. Not a remake. I played enough of AoM. I wanted a totally new and fresh AoM experience.

I love the Age of Empires franchise, but I guess I just mean AoE2 (and AoE1 for its time), and original AoM. AoE3 are AoE4 are missing the marks for what I’m looking for in an AoE franchise game. I felt they evolved in the opposite direction of what I’d want. And AoM:R feels somewhat like a reboot that not many people asked for, but I could be wrong. I know that’s how it feels to me, unfortunately

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But do u think a DLC with new civs would do the job? Or do u want it to be a different experience from the ground up?

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I’d be open to taking a look at the trailer and see what it brings, it would make me curious. But I think the foundation of AoM:R – its graphics, animations, and some other stuff – if not improved, would cause me to not buy.

Do you know if they are planning to bring more civs to AoM:R?

I’m looking for a big leap in graphics and detail for AoM and AoE games at this point. The modest steps forward seen in AoM:R and AoE4, or in some cases graphical regressions or the more mobile experience, just arent’t enough for me, especially considering I need to try and look past some gameplay and in-game experience things that I don’t particularly like. (The graphics could make up for some of that)

I wouldn’t need AoM:2 to be totally different gameplay or rebuilt from the ground up with its mechanics, but I wouldn’t be opposed to that, especially if it didn’t stray too far from classic AoE mechanics. I think it would need to be built from the ground up from a graphics and maybe engine perspective, though

Keep in mind, I’ve so far preferred the 2D sprite graphics of AoE2 over 3D engine graphics of AoE3/4/M:R/RoN/AoE:O, etc. Just seems more charming and immersive for me, and the camera perspecitve is great. If AoM:2 were to use a 2D sprite engine, I’d love that. Or if they did it in 3D but retained the AoE2 cam perspective, that would probably work okay for me

The art style is pretty much the same as the original. I don’t know what you were expecting.