Well, desperation… not really, because you kill your whole eco. You’re dead if you want to use it for desperation.
It’s only “useful” to finish of. But you need a lead to do this and - and this is important - you take away any chance of comeback for the oponent. And that’s what I like on AOE2, that you actually can come back from a unfortunate position. Flemish revolution kills that aspect completely how it is designed now.
its called a last ditch effort. feel like you’re losing ground in the late game? research the tech and watch as you instantly have 100+ more soldiers and go attempt to finish your opponent off.
not really - imagine that your in the late game, you’ve got roughly 120 villagers and so does your opponent. hes got roughly 50 military and you’re army is slowly losing numbers to his, and hes got a roughly 20-30 military advantage.
you could research this and try an all out attack to try and come back and win the game.
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Won’t work. The opponent just spams anything he has. At some point the revolutionaries are gone and you have no eco left. You’re dead.
Same as above. Maybe sounds good, but won’t work that way. Never seen that working before.
It could actually work in trash wars, but tbh how burgundians can stall a game til a full trash war? Either they use their powerspikes early or they just die before trash war
I’ve never seen a game were a desperation flemish revolution worked.
your opponent isn’t even pop capped, how can he spam stuff? and you literally now have triple the army supply of him.
go watch some starcraft 2 it happens all the time where one person loses a lot of their eco, uses their remaining resources to go all in military and wins.
we’ve seen it in aoe2 a lot too where one player goes 1 TC castle age and wins because he overwhelms his opponent with military.
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Do you have a video of any game where it worked?
haven’t seen a whole lot of burgundians being used at the top level period, they just aren’t a very good civ, so they aren’t seeing much use.
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yeah they suck, so there are so many chances for desperation flemish revolution to work
But I haven’t seen a single desperation revolution which worked yet. All memes, but none of them changed the outcome of the game.
and yet we’ve seen desperation gambles work for other people like i said. 1 tc play vs someone going more eco oriented and winning.
suddenly haveing 3 times your opponents military available CAN WIN YOU A GAME.
Which shows how terrible the revolution is, because it just doesn’t work as a desperation move.
Then only making a fraction of the villagers isn’t the solution. It’s just an attempt at going 50/50 between military numbers burst and eco preservation, but it doesn’t solve the flaws of the concept.
What I would like to see is to make this tech cheaper, and it merely unlocks flemish militia at the TC and barracks. This way you can have this decent unit (it’s basically a champ that works against cav) to have something to do if your early paladins didn’t work and the enemy has camels/better cav at their disposal. It should also be pretty sustainable if you have enough relics and Burgundian vineyards.
Tbh i never liked the revolution mechanic in old aoe3, and i don’t like it on burgundians either.
i loved burgundians whan they released and now i dont like em any more bc the fact that u have acces to the cavalier in castle age means that u get acces to bloodlines in ccastle plus that u will be behind in knight numbers, cavalier takes as much as 3 knights meaning that if u and ur opponent go 2 stable knights than u will die to their knights outnumbering u 2 to 1. they are only the best booming civ if u go 4 tcs in bf and have all castle age and feudal wood and farm eco upgrades
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Just because you haven’t seen it work doesn’t mean it can’t.
Furthermore I agree with cactus. Just make the tech unlock the unit for production and the civ is a lot better.
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Aren’t Burgundians supposed to be a power spike civ? Right now the only power spike they have are mid Castle Age cavalier and early Imp paladins. Their eco bonus is quite difficult to execute, therefore they don’t really have anything going on in Feudal Age. So what if:
- 50% stable techs starts in Castle Age
- Light Cavalry available in Feudal Age?
The way I understand them is, you really only benefit from the eco bonus if you have extended Feudal Age, as this is the time where you can gain a tech lead over your opponent. If you are aiming for FC you are completely ignoring this bonus, which is bad design.
With this idea Burgundians would have a reason to stay longer in Feudal Age and use their eco bonus and also would have the tools to not die in early game. This is also in line with the “cav tech earlier” theme they have.
(LC in Feudal would be like a Bloodlines scout with -5HP, +2 Attack, but for 150f 50g instead of 150f 100g, roughly same upgrade time).
What do you think? 
Do you mean no revolution and only make the flemish militia available? If yes I think the UT should be reworked completely as I think having a whole unit behind a pay wall is really bad (like the flaming camel).
Or what do you mean by your statement? What should the tech do
Light cavalry would be too strong for feudal age. They kill spears faster than scouts and absolutely decimate feudal age archers.
Not really. That’s not much different from pretty much every normal unit upgrade. The difference is that you can’t mass the unit before the tech, to remedy that make the tech cheap and the unit train decently fast.
I would unlock the unit and give some kind of a bonus to their infantry or barracks. It doesnt need to be very usefull bonus, i just wouldnt like an entire UT to unlock a unit
They were OP at release.
They are a poorly designed civ, designed around huge powerspikes which are hard/impossible to compete with.
Remove those crutches and their flaws become apparent.
A solution to balance them could be :
- bloodline available
- cavalier upgrade not avalaible in castle age anymore
- coustilliers 95hp instead of 115hp, elite 125hp instead of 145hp
Discounted bloodline could definitly help them in Feudal where they suffer the most in my opinion. They will lose a bit of powerspikes in Castle with the lost of Cavalier tech, but their hussards and paladins with bloodlines in late game will be stronger. Blast furnace would also probably need to be removed to compensate.
Also a redesign of Flemish revolution is also needed :
- Flemish revolution (600 food, 400 gold) :
Give the option to convert existing vils into flemish militia. (option only available for the vils already on the field when the tech is researched).
Flemish militia are available in TCs.
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I have another idea
give them bloodline as a civ bonus for free but after reaching imperial age this will help them for their end-game weakness and also keep balance their castle age cavalier.
ofc their elite UU should have less HP to balance their free bloodline