Are native civs too poor?

I’m just gonna say it.

haud generally has too many cards and too few techs.

those crate Big Buttons for farm/estates could just become strong eco technologies for farms and estates respectively, something in line with refrigeration and an age 4 estate tech. This will have absolutely no effect on 1v1 balance in 99% of games. Wood crates BB is good though, it can be a life saver if you get housed suddenly in early age 3.

I have a long standing frustration with hauds evolution on DE, which is just pushing everything into cards. the civ needs more techs available by default. the deck is bloated and its impossible to fit all their upgrades in a single deck, even treaty players can’t use cav cards. Im glad Horse Secrets got buffed, that was an excellent step in the right direction. I’d like to see lacrosse also tech military drummers, hauds inf is so slow and lacrosse training would make them run faster, right? Little things like this would go a long way


This x10000.

It’s funny, watching an interview with Sandy Petersen(Lead designer of the original Warchiefs expansion) he noted that he gave natives “big buttons” to signify that they do “a powerful thing” when you click them, but players in the play tests still weren’t using them. Imo most big buttons for all TWC civs are either too expensive, or just not worth using until too late in the game. I feel like most of them are just comparable to a church/arsenal tech. It would be nice to see BBs get some more attention in general.

The irony is that it takes, in said bloated deck, a card to make most of the BBs cost effective is not lost on me lol

I think some better BB prices base and cav combat into 1 card would help, just minor buffs that would go along way.

Same happens for indians and aztecs i said this several months ago…

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Supp, many have said it, different forms but pretty much the same. Not just eco I’m still hopping they improve Aztecs to be more “historical”.

Spitballing an idea for Haud (team games) - a potential I think can be replacing the plaza big button - which just gives the chief a very bad heal ability , with something that gives healers, maybe modeled after the incan one that gives vils

its an eco bonus since it gives you a path to take vils off the plaza and start getting the bonuses( faster training vils, xp etc ) or military. it could be like 100 of each resources for 3 healers for up to the first 5 mins and +1 for every 2-3 mins to take advantage of the unique haude crates.

Its impact on treaty is minimal, 1v1 maybe very good but I think its a good way to get haude into the healer track better then using the ceremony and the benefit for team is that haud can be a really flexible member capable of having a buffed army early or make vils and eco faster

Or maybe, just maybe, Chinese ARE OP in lower levels. I know, crazy idea.


Plis, discuss about native civs, not TAD civs.


I think natives are mostly fine, there are certainly civs doing far worse in terms of win rate.

they could use some more flavor like many euro civs got, and some viable outlaw strats (at least for Lakota since they already have american outlaws) which means giving them something to reduce their pop cost similarly to any other civ IMO.

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The truth is that I have never seen that they hate any civilization. I suppose there are players like that, but I don’t think they are found that often.

In fact I have seen many suggestions asking to improve lakota and haudenosaune. Also there are many reasons why they do not play with these civilizations and I comment again:

The “mining” strange that almost nobody likes.

The square is a somewhat boring building. Did these civilizations direct the destiny of their civilization by consulting a llama and ordinary people? The square would better represent an exclusive market mechanic for these civilizations and animals as the llama would make more sense.

They are too poor as mentioned by the creator of the thread, but in many more ways, for example: They do not have emblematic buildings and have only the necessary basic buildings. Why don’t we have an Aztec or Inca palace or temple? Here the religious leaders or healers (as they want to call them) would make more sense.


Native civs keep getting nerfed despite being underrepresented on the ladder.

It would be nice to ### ### Rider and Takola Solders get 15 LOS like all other hand cav to compensate for bow rider damage nerfs vs villes. The 12 LOS they currently have is very limiting to their raiding potential. Akitchta will make bow rider x 0.25 vs ville.

the highly offensive words blocked by the brilliant filter with ### are “see” and “Axe”, btw.

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@Frumpylumps Perhaps. But I truly hope that the damage bonus that the [Bow Rider] had towards villagers gets reverted in the future. They should have never removed it since that was a core part of their unit design.

(Edit: It would be nice if their damage multiplier towards villagers was changed back to the one they had originally, where they had no damage penalty against them, if that is still possible.)


I also think it makes historical sense because I think they didn’t allow them to colonize their land for any reason.

I honestly don’t get where people are coming from when they say that civs like Aztec or Lakota are weak (maybe fix some cards for the latter). I honestly think that most of the Native civs are fine (with the exception of the Tribal Market). The only changes I’d want is for the developers to fix Inca’s roster (mostly just the Huaraca) and give Haude some love (maybe some late game buffs and some new Cards), since they’re really the only Native civ that could be potentially considered weak in this patch. There are so many other civs that are worse off in this patch: Ports, Brits, Mexicans and Hausa for example.


Try to use Aztec to play a 3v3 or 4v4 game :smiley:

I don’t know why their gold mine market tech required 50 more wood for the same effect and dev consider this is fair…Do they understand 50w is not little resource at the beginning.

They are generally considered weak against artillery or in treaty play.

It should be cheaper.

What if the Lakota get captured gatling guns? According to these mensions it would make sense and would help the mid-late game of lakota where they begin to lose power.

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Still civ like inca has no way to deal with cannon surrounded by caroleans. And sweden has cannon in age 2

The funnier part is that Inca is the easiest civ to justify getting access to cannons. (Or well, as easy as the Haudenosaunee who already get them by default.)

The Thunderbolts of Illapa tech could help a lot if it just enabled them rather than just giving you a handful.