August PUP - Update 66692 Aug 29

Some people think it’s to reduce “sheep slinging” in TG, but if just building more mills can bypass that then it’s never going to have the intended effect. They should probs take into account all mills at once.


Now is also sad that Ghulam HP was nerfed, while Eagles still cost 20f, and also no nerfs to Obuch (That infantry UU is probably much worse to face than Ghulam).


They are now same as Eagle Warrior. Never saw someone saying xbow counters Eagle Warrior.


Not that low, especially on closed maps or maps with shore fish or extra hunt. Maps like Black forest or Yucatan have both. Overall this provides more incentive to keep all your sheep for the long term.

Yeah as long as you have more than 1 mill, sheep slinging should be slightly stronger. For the earlier example of 12 sheep (4 donated) you used to get 42 food (and needed 2 mills anyway to hold more than 10), but with the new change its 48.

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OK that may be worth it. But it’s risky nevertheless. Need to check how much 3rd and 4th mill would bring in.

Nah, they still get the pass damage, attack bonus and fast creation speed. It will mostly affect their performance vs cavalry and other infantry units.


If anyone wonders, the polish stone bonus remains unchanged :V.


not to mention the pass through damage means that stacked archers are easier for ghulam to deal with then eagles.


seems they make TG tatar springboard sheep as a viable strategy

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Comparing % of increase for better understanding.

Castle Age
Bengalis 50%
Dravidians 23.5%
Gurjaras 27.78%

Imperial Age
Bengalis 48.15%
Dravidians 30%
Gurjaras 26.3%

I’m really excited to see if EA is viable for Bengalis and Dravidians now.

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Maybe, but in reality we weren’t only countering EA with skirms. Their low dps and high cost still makes them susceptible to siege and knights(cavalry in general, hussars), nevermind camels or even halbs

And they still aren’t giving that much offensive power (iirc 3 xbows for the cost of an EA)

It’s like over investing in trash to counter power units, except now the EA more damage than skirms. It’s still a huge investment for not much offensive power. You also can’t guard anything with them, ie monks or siege, because you don’t have the dps.

I’m hoping I’m wrong and that 10f is enough. Still going to try it

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Just checked Bengalis get 2 extra villagers at start in EW. As expected unlike Mayans or Chinese, no resource penalty. I think it is completely balanced considering how bad the civ is.


I am not sure whether low dps is the fact. Since they can still clear paladin in reasonable timeframe

They have same DPS as CA but have 50% more overall cost. So dps:cost ratio is an issue. Only Dravidians is probably justified but that one lacks husbandry (I’m okay with no bloodline). Also Bengalis lack TR means 11% less dps than CA in early castle age.

So 60 EA can stack in 2v2 area, same space as a house. Now I understood how 20 elephants can fit in a transport ship. 11

Can you do the same test with Dravidians? Ignore Gurjaras as there is zero reason to play EA as Gurjaras.

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did not think of that one

That’s more a display of how stacking ranged units can be abused vs melee in general than a reflection of how well paladin usually performs vs. EAs. Without the artificial water chokepoint, (next to which any decent player would avoid taking a fight), palas do much better. Most intermediate+ players would also be able to punish this easily with Onager line or even BBC.

Also, lol at the random Amazon Warrior :rofl:


Sure, but I would say the consideration of longevity should also be included, not just naive dps:cost ratios - after all, if your Ele Archers stay alive for longer than three of your Crossbows or CAs, then they’re already better value. Elephant units after all are meant to be very pop efficient, and I’d say the current EAs are.

Dravidian EAs are especially hilarious, a blob of them feels like a tank with machineguns attached to it. With the buff, they aren’t even that glass-cannon-y against Skirmishers, but low PA doesn’t matter as much anyway when you have a ton of HP even without Bloodlines.


Not only does this exclude the 1200 food (15 hussars worth) the 60 EA cost(post buff) it’s also a very warped tactical situation. You don’t engage stacked archers unless you have an aoe attack.

Run this same “test” with a couple onagers backing them up. Or having the EA actually attack or defend something.

Nevermind that at such high numbers in stacked fights obviously the ranged units will naturally have the advantage due to sheer limit on body blocking.

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Am I the only one who finds these changes are not that much? I mean Xbow nerf is good but as a general and some civs will be even stronger, for example Mayans, Ethiopians and Chinese are even better now with this xbow nerf comparing to other generic civs. Hindustanis, Gurjaras and Burgundians nerfs are not that much and feels like won’t change their current stats at all. Sicilians nerf is good but not enough either. Bengalese’s buff is weird, really weird! This will help them in arena (which they are already good in arena) but won’t change that much, I wonder if EA buff would help. Dravidians are fine somehow. Also no nerfs to other strong civs like Mayans, Franks, Chinese, Britons, etc.


I think nerf on Gurjaras and Hindustanis is quite decent. Sicilian nerf is quite harsh though.

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