From this reply, I have already showed:
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Bank I would still consider age2 =3 banks, age3 =5 banks for limitation to lower their boom speed.
You can very eaisly outboom Japan. As mentioned earlier one shrine is not even 1 settler or villager. In fact without upgeades its about 2 villagers or settlers.
In total shrines (again need to be at animals) produce ~6.6 when you have 20. Thats less then 1 factory. So when Japan reaches age 4 every European who also reached age 4 will instantly be able via 1 card to outproduce the entire Japamese eco bonus.
It very well does matter destroying the shrines. Definatly when you are also battling as it means he has less pop for defence and needs to build new houses meaning loss of time and these new houses (shrines) need to be build at animals, if you push him they wont be able and he has to place them without animals making it a basic house.
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Why nerf bank btw? Dutch are one of the weaker civs.
What!!?? Dutch now are a S tier civ
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How?
Their ruyter isnt that great, imho and they really need to go into late age III to IV to be good. Early game they lack options. A civ can go for heavy cavalry age 2 and Dutch have no viable option as pikeman is trash.
Their only eco bonus is banks which are big investments. (and 15% faster mines, but seeing you will be relying more on banks for your coin income this is not that big)
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If the other one goes to heavy cavalry in 2 years, you can defend with the sending of 8 pikes, minuteman, make ff and take the send of 9 ruyters, the cavs will only be able to annoy but they do not have a great siege. The other player will surely be stuck at 2 age and you can afford a great economy thanks to the banks and better units in 3 age.
Ruyters seem quite effective to me.
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Pikeman hit like patatoes.
One pimeman does 40 damage against a hussar, while a hussar does 30 against pikeman.
If he has 3 hussar shipment and makes hussar on its own lets say 4, there will be 7 hussar vs 8 pikeman, which your pikeman will kill like 1-2 hussar and those other 5 will keep harrasing your eco while your opponent can also just age up.
And you saying go to age III supports that dutch need to go into mid to late game. Which means they are worse against rushers and bad against better late game civs like Germans and French and mediocre against other middle game civs.
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Pretty much. The only way pikemen can win is if they are in a choke and cavalry cant surround or are at a huge numeric advantage.
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Japan needs one nerf and thats the speed of Ashi to be reduced to 4.25 like a carolean or 4 like a normal musketeer. Their way superior stats would pay for their price either way.
Also Dutch is super strong since the latest patch. They can age super nicely around 4:10 and everything they do from that point is mega super safe. Banks are technically indestructable, very decent FF and after that they just swarm skirms and that ■■■■ joke of a unit that the ruyter is. Thats it. Couple of coulverins and they counter you till you breathe.
I understand they wanted to give dutch early game options and thats fair. But without reducing their later game, they just skyrocket, as they do now. Have a look at ANY matches resource curve on the timeline. The dutch will out gather you like crazy.
I’d support to give banks shadow techs throughtout the ages, or a specific button to boost their production.
Thats my problem with auto gathering buildings. They are waaay too safe. Have a look at fx Brits. Yeah, they spread like crazy, but there is no way one can keep them working all the time if they are getting raided. They need to be microed, saved, sent back to duty, etc etc. whith which im totally fine with. Fair price they have to pay, and its definitely for the super competitive people who can keep everything in check. But on the other hand, an auto gather building gathers even if it has only 1 hp left. Undisturbed, unstopped. Do we see the extreme difference of skill and stress when it comes to operating these civs?
I hate japan, boring af. But I swear I went back to play them for the super safe stress free (no hunting) laid back lifestyle they offer. So yeah, auto gather civs should be less stress free.
out
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DANGER! you have Japan’s greatest defenders right behind you …
Im absolutely agree with u in all.
PD: Dutch are my 2nd most played civ. And I also plays with Japan.
Im really stressed when I plays British bc micro the settlers
The mines are a 20% bonus only that in the description of the game it says 15%
This is why eco buildings civs are always on top tiers.
I have being saying from the game beginning that, eco building is not a good design but most of people at that time only want a new stuff, until now we are still suffering from these.
They already provide better eco than general civs but also like providing skill bonus to the players.
True, people underestimate the Dutch. They have the best skirmisher-dragoon combo in the game by far.
Also banks doubling up as walls.
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What about if gather rates are joined to HP %
A bank with 50% of HP give you 50% of coin. This way enemies dont need take down the building to damage the economy of this civs and this civs have to spend resources repairing them
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No. Banks are fine. Dutch just needs some late game nerfs. Particularly their ruyter.
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Well, I think this could be a great mechanic.
Tbh, seeing the updates, I have the gut feeling that they won’t implement something as “drastic” of a feature as this one. They don’t have the resources to do so. They don’t have the resources to fix the already existing tons of bugs. Fx. Attack move and path finding is still buggy (day one issues). No matter how much I love this game, it is dying, and aoe4 in a couple of months is gonna put the last nail in the coffin.
Without upgrades:
1 more ranged damage and 20 more hp. 3 less
melee damage. And do worse against cavalry then regular musk. I dont count speed as you want that removed.
You pay 20 resources for a bit more hp and less melee damage and 1 more ranged damage. Dont really agree on them having superior stats.
Let me point out the fact that Ashi takes 7 shots to kill a Musk, while Musk takes 8. This fact purely is worth the extra cost, fair and simple. (Afaik Ashi has 10 base melee x3.5 against cav, musk is 13 x3 against cav. So its totally equal in that regard)
It is kind of a consensus, that SPEED is the most important stat in the game.
And that’s the biggest problem with Ashi. Being familiar with Japan, you must also know this.
If by any chance they find themselves outmatched, you can pull them back and NOTHING can chase them down. They can get away with very minimal losses. No other infantry can do this (shock inf is not inf, remember). Or they can use this to punish and chase down anything since in most fights they are going to be the favourite.
And we havent even talked about the tremendous amount of buffs they get throughout the game. They are insanely good! The only thing that can take up a fight against them is highly upgraded skirms and arty. All japanese players Im up against get 2 things. Ashi and Nagi and thats it. They clean up anything in their way. If by any chance arty becomes the problem, just flaming arrow or even better, Yabusame.
Tried a strat to find a use for samurai plays, and I had to realize, there is none. Not because they are bad, it is because Ashi and Yumi are so freakin insanely good. Ashi, Yabu, Yumi all S tiers in their role.
So, Ashi needs to be punishable, cause in age 2, you pretty much cant do anything against them. They clean up their hard counters easily, all the xbows, native bows and anything.
Caroleans can charge them and maybe long rifled state militia can hunt them down. Anything else can max scare them away (speed thing), like fx gurkha, or dutch skirms or longbows.
Ashi needs to be punishable. Period.
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Oh no, Samurai really are trash.
It’s not that simple. Melee units can catch up Ashigaru, snare and even kill them due to the weaker melee attack.
Funnily enough, even pikeman trades somewhat well with Ashigaru thanks to the fact that pikeman are so cheap and Ashigaru so expensive.
Is also important to remember that Ashigaru costs 5 food and 15 coin more than a normal Musketeer. This does not seem much, but when you multiply by 10/20/30 you gonna have 200/400/600 resources deficit.
You can say that 7 Ashigaru one shot a Musketeer, but 7 Ashigarus costs 560 food and 240 coin while 8 Musketeers costs 600 food and 200 coin, and the 8 Musketeers actually win a fight against 7 Ashigaru despite the later being more expensive since it cost more coin that gather slower.
This is particularly bad for a civilization that already have to gather lot of wood to build up shrines.
Ashigaru are fine, they need to have something good to them to compensate for the high cost.
Also, I must say that I’m just seeing much more Yumi + Yabusame lately, I rarely see the old Naginata + Ashigaru + Yumi composition.