Balance Suggestions for the Next Patch

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
62

10×3.5 = 35
13×3 = 39

And then you just keep pushing. I mean where do theybkeep retreating when you are near their eco? Also basically every European civ can get this speed bonus in age II.

I have won with Russia spam of strelets and musketeers and some horse arty. But then again it was also a team game and maybe he was not that good, but idk.

xbows are just trash in general.

Ashi is definatly higher tier unit, but so is spahi and others. Yabusame is very expensive and pretty weak in hp, they hit harder but will die also harder when faced with skirms. Yumi is comparable to longbowman and skirmisher being about the same (although differences).

63

If you play dutch like another civ (like brits or french) you will find them weak. But the truth is that with the 15% bonus your early game is no longer weak.

If you go Huss (1st the dutch player will know that cause of envoy) and will just FF while staying in base with 8 pikes. Otherwise you can use the 400w to make a Barracks or Stable and actually rush with cav or instead make another bank and have the 5 banks with Skirms in the middle, send 8 pikes and just wait for Fortress.

The issue is that their 15% bonus is needed for their survivability in colonial (to survive hard rushes). So you need to nerf their setup in other ways - hence the bank cost increase.

Regarding their ruyter, its ONLY the best Dragoon in the game in terms of pop/cost efficency. Yes they do not kill cannon like goons (with the same numbers) but they will, with similar ressource numbers.

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64

Okay, 35 vs 39, you are right, I didnt consider it that significant of a difference, but it is if we consider that Musk takes 9 shots to kill a hussar, while it means 10 for an Ashi. Fair point. But still, nobody is going to go after Ashi with huss.

Although your second point simply cant be taken seriously. We cant even remotely consider Advanced Arsenal as an option. You suggested to compare vanilla unupgraded units, so lets stick to that. But if we want to consider this as an option, we cant still compare a unit thats speed feature is included, where for any other civ it takes a card, 550 res (AA plus Mili Drummers) to get the boost, to 4.4 speed, which is even slower than Ashi. Realistically speaking, NOBODY is going for AA in age II. Which one would u go for? 700 wood or AA? Which one gives you the bigger boost? I think this question is not arguable.

The second part of the paragraph, is, that im just gonna push in. Again, VERY few civs can push ashi back in age II. Then comes the next problem. Its impossible to significantly damage Japans Eco to the point that it will actually give you and edge. TC and vils are unraidable. The only unit that can push ashi back is skirm, and all of them wield super low siege damage. So taking down a shrine is just a waste of time. Its a lot easier to spread shrines all over the place with 2 heroes who can by the way safely get out of trouble (wtf…)

I hope you start to see the pain the other player has to endure playing against japan.
Vils - Safe
Shrine spread/Heroes - Safe
Ashi - Safe (speed)

They say: “Japan starts with a very weak eco, so there’s your opportunity to keep them in bay…”
Well, thank you, it doesn’t matter, if the opponent doesn’t have any tools to do damage with. Especially with slower to start up civs like USA (avg age II is around 5 min.)

Okay, after all that, i can start agreeing with you again, that there ARE super agressive civs who can do harm, fx Russia as you said. Strelets are the best skirms in the game. But again, it also suggests that there are huge balance issues with japan, if only a couple of mega agressive civs can stop them in their tracks.

Yabusame has 50% range resist, longest base range, and 1.5 rate of fire. Best ranged cav against arty and shock inf. They are ridiculously strong, but I can live with them, because they are punishable.

Ashi is NOT, cause they just walk away from danger. They provide the best, most versatile presence any age II unit can provide (together with the carolean maybe), and they keep having that feature throughout the ages, thanks to the tremendous upgrades they receive. And that is simply unacceptable for only a 20% more expensive unit, which by the way the Jap eco is perfectly suited to continously pump out from 2 racks.

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65

What do you think about this?? It could help natives.https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/hc-point-for-community-plaza/135834?u=ekdal1378

66

Why? They are so damn OP, Japan, Inca and Sweden are like a Snow Ball. If they boom its almost impossible to be equal using other civs.

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67

Coyotes are almost useless in late game, they die instantly even vs Skirmisher + Cannon UNITS THEY SUPPOSED TO COUNTER.

At least they need +20% boost to be equal as Cossacks, but only for the late game.

68

Inca is OK I think. They have a very rough time against arty. But Sweden and Japan is brutal.

Watch the game of Haitch (no 1 player) on his twitch. Hes german and sends res cards, while sweden only sends military cards in age 2 and still outgathers the him.

I have no idea if the devs actually test these kind of things out before releasing the patches.
Which makes me wonder if we are going to get anything in the next patch, since the last two didnt bring almost any civ changes at all. Lets see

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69

Agreed on all counts. Japan artificially inflates skill level due to how forgiving of a civ it is to play. They can’t be punished effectively unless you are a strong rush civ. Reduce shrine HP, nerf Ashi speed, slightly reduce Yamu range. I question the skill level of folks that talk like Ashi speed is not a big deal. It tells me that they don’t micro well anyway and don’t often play against Japan as a Euro civ.

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70

The only thing i ask for the next update is plz delete the Svea Lifeguard. Caroleans are broken with that card and don’t tell me that you have to be in age 4 in order to send it. IT IS HEAVILY BROKEN! and it shouldn’t be part of the game. Remember when they nerfed spanish fi? well they did it because it was an automatically “i win” button so they should do the same with this card.

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71

Please remove or redesign Sweden, this is only give fun to the people who play it with OP characteristics but disgusting to people who play against.

72

the keypoint of angentina is very right, cant agree with you more!
need add right unit attributes to the Mounted Granadero

73

knows anyone here when comes the next patch?

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74

I don’t know, but I guess we’ll find out soon - at the same time, mysterious achievements were added to AoE 2 and AoE 3. Since today there was an update to AoE 2, I think there will be an update for AoE 3 this week.

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75

Dudes this is not a “SwEdEN Op PlEaSe ReMoVe” Thread. Please go to other threads and whine there.

As stated previously in MANY MANY MANY POSTS Svea is not OP, and is needed for carolean survivabiliy in late game vs any skirm composition.

Without SVEA Caroleans die like flies to skirms. With Svea they die less until Counter infantry rifling is reasearched

People REALLY REALLY need to understand that a unit with 3 cards (Svea+platoon fire+snaplock) and a guard upgrade + eventual Advanced Arsenal Upgrades is not going to die to its counter if the counter is not properly buffed up as well.

Caroleans die to roughly equal numbers to musks until svea, and then die to skirms very convincingly if Counter infantry rifling is researched (especially, Dutch, Ports, French German skirms, and Gurkhas).

The problem with sweden is not a “UnIT tO oP pLeAsE nErF” but the amount of units they can pop in the middle game with half a dozen vils while having torps really hard to take down.

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76

They should be and they ought to be.

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77

Skirms have to kill them and sweden have to train canons or cavalry, NOT ONLY CAROLEANS

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78

And what’s the problem? Spain loses in late game and it’s garbage in team because its units doesn’t scale well. We’re not here crying for skirms upgrades in order to beat other skirms in late game. We have to finish the game before late game. Sweden without Svea still a really solid pick so stfu and don’t tell me you don’t have skirms, you can mass jaggers cuz torps are really good. And even if jaggers are not viable then just finish the game sooner like Spain, Ottos and other civs that doesn’t scale well

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79

Skirms DO kill them (as STATED ENDLESS times) If you just send caroleans against a Skirm mass (even with svea) they die. If they have svea you need a bigger mass (you cant have a 2/1 ratio) or need Counter infantry Rifling.

If your opponent only makes caroleans and you still die (the problem is not on the caroleans). As Sweden in team games i usually open with Cav (as its FAR FAR better than caroleans) and in long games its Mortar/HC/Carolean/Jagers.

Their goons are really solid right now and they kinda have the best revolts (Chile, Peru and Argentina), so they can hold really nice unless its a very very very late game like treaty 40 or 60.

Yeah because as stated you dont need more upgrades, as Counter Infantry Rifling Skirms beat SVEA Caroleans.

Torps are really good and are the reason for Sweden’s great early and middle game. And its the eco part that allows carolean spam that should be nerfed and not the unit itself - hence my suggestions above.
Jaegers are really good but you need a REALLY good late game eco to pull them constantly. Also they die to the same counters as caroleans + cav (Skirms, Cannon and Cavalry), so they are not a viable option.

Ottomans actually have a good late game as well with Abus and Nizam and a really nice late game eco.They do suffer vs masses of goons but then again so does sweden.

I really understand that in a certain level its hard to counter caroleans cause you dont mass units or fight with veteran vs guard or guard vs imperial and think that you can win. Or think like members of this chat that a Guard unit triple carded should die to veteran unupgraded skirms, but in other matchups that does not happen.

The problem with Sweden is their Torps - the survivability of torps and the Cards with eco boost to Torps, not the upgrades to their units. If you are losing with skirms vs caros perhaps look at you skirms (this statement does not apply to strelets as they do suck vs caros, but that is a problem of strelets and not of Caroleans).

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80

What’s your elo? Also. Revolutions in team games are not a good idea at all because everybody is going to be with imperial upgrades and you won’t have a solid eco so it stills the same problem for Spain and Otto.

81

Maybe they could change “the chief” politician, giving swasbuckler attack automatically in fortress like other civs, giving 3WP plus WC HP and attack.

Other option could be change “the elder”, more HP and attack for barracks could become a % buff to warrior priest dancing. We have to remember that aztec politicians give buffs instead crates.

The last option could be giving the warrior a buff like the other members of the council like a boost to coyotes HP or SK training time