they have a use. if you say they dont and that is a fact you are laying to yourself
if i only cared about indians i would not respond to other forums. i dont care that much if they are changed or not but i think shuting down suggestion with all or noting mentaliy is not an argument. if you creat a topic that i will be interasted in and will think that it might be a good change i will support you.
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again me always saying balanc first and you stating that i dontâŠ11
They are called a camel civ and lack knights, so that wouldnât be the best idea.
Do you really intend to give a top tier civ Battle Elephants?!
Letâs give Persians Battle Elephants too I guessâŠ
Not sure about most players, but this would make them way more accurate.
ngl, the Indian civ change threads are about 4-5 atm.
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thats where a rebalenc of a civ comes first, they get something they lose somethingâŠetc maybe doing something with UU that at least it could be used would help
i agree we cant know what all whant 
but sienc this topic was voiced from the start of indians that they didnt have a real identety and we need to listen to players that acualy come to discuss it.
devs should always listen to the comunitiy about what they think befor making a change, maybe with a survey. sienc such rework would be a really big thing for players that might really like the civ already, devs talking to the comunitiy would be really great
Heavily disagree. From a gameplay point of view, Indians are one of the best designed civs, and that is what AoE2 is, a game.
Indians are a fast Boom civ (due to having such a large industrial base in the Middle Ages), and therefore should not get access to either Knights or Battle Elephants, since those units would quickly become abusive, when compounded ith the Excellet Indian Economy (Fishermen bonus + Villager discount + Sultans UT).
Because the devs decided to pull the civ on the eco front, they must have quickly seen how out-of-hand it would go with access to Knights (same problem as BE, too pop-efficient), and decided to remove all Indian Heavy Cavalry.
To compensate, the Camel line was buffed a lot, and this proved to be a prudent decision.
The reality of it is, that Indians are already a complete and brutal package, as far as gameplay is involved, and gameplay is the key factor to any game.
Just look at Company of Heroes 1, where the Axis were massively OP, because the devs wanted to be a bit mor accurate. It was a balance nightmare. CoH2 is much more arcade (gamey) and is the better game for it.
Historical accuracy must be sacrificed for the sake of gameplay, every time, because History was neither fun, or balanced, when it came to conflict.
In fact, it tended to be very one-sided most of the time.
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just give them normal elephant and not elite + fix UU and i think most of indians topics will dissapere
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I still doubt fully upgraded Ele would make difference
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Yeah its tech tree and bonus might be great, the worst part is it is named âIndiansâ. 11
If it was designed for becoming another civ which really related to camels in the medieval age, maybe there would be no debates now.
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No, they have the Indian super-economy that the subcontinent had in the Middle Ages. But because they have such a great, historiclly accurate economy, they cannot have Heavy cavalry of any sort, due to Balance reasons.
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Finally there should be some conclusion after the debate. If Indians cannot be given Battle Elephants as argued by some, atleast it makes some sense to improve the Elephant Archer. Either increase the attack or speed. Else they become moving corpses against Halberdiers and Skirmishers.
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The issue with Improving Elephant Archers, is that Indians are already a great civ, that is incredibly powerful, and has a great Boom in Feudal and Castle Age.
They are clearly geared towards using Archery Range and Camel units, which they can field easily and fast.
The EA is not a bad unit in itself, it is a very tanky Archer that benefits from Cavalry Archer upgrades and is very resistant to Pierce Damage; only you seldom need a unit like this, unless it is fast or easily spammable.
The drawback of the EA are there specifically so it cannot overshadow Longbowmen, Chu Ko Nus, Magudai, and other Archers UUs it beats 1 on 1.
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Agreed, EAs are good against Infantry except Pikemen line and they are good against many archers. But their slow speed and low attack is the reason they are not effective overall. There is definitely a room for improvement in this area.
If the shorefish nerf affects their perfomance, a little buff to EA can be enough to bring them to their current position again.
Indians have fully upgraded Cavalry Archers complete with Parthian Tactics. They make great support with their powerful Hand Cannons.
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still it is not justified to call them very strong in that field as there is no specific civ bonuses related to archery range. you can call them average but not very strong. a lot of civs have cavalry archers with parthian tactics.
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There is, the Villager discount helps a lot with Eco boomings, which is beneficial to all units in general.
Shatagini UT directly benefits Hand Cannoneers, and Sultans indirectly benefits all Gold units, like Cav Archers and HCs.
Very few civs have FU Heavy Cavalry Archers, and Indians is one of them.
In fact, 2 dedicated Cav Archers civs are missing upgrades for them, the Huns and the Mongols.
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i agree to those points of yours.
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Look, we have talked through this before. The Mongols did get âredesignedâ for historical accuracy in the exact sense as is being demanded here, by them receiving Steppe Lancers ((that too with bonus HP). And that didnt lead to âEVERYONE asking for same treatmentâ, as this issue with Indians comes from before the creation of SL itself
And before you claim yet again that the Mongols change was fine as SL is not a major change to their Winrates, you know very well SL are going to be buffed sometime in the future, as the balance changes wonât end anytime soon.
They got a single unit, that didnât affect their balance or civ design. You want something that affects both.
And you have zero proof that the step lancer is going to get buffed. It is strictly your opinion that they will
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