Bohemians - we are not and never was "eastern" or orthodox

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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Hello,

I know that world is taking us and Pols as eastern Europe and since we are considered Slavs we got same architecture as Russians etc.

But! Until WW1 we never had any contact with Russia, we were part of Holy Roman Empire and for centuries Prague was home of the Holy Roman emperors. In 9th century Bohemians left paganism and accepted Catholic religion.

It is not our fault we were betrayed (twice) by our “allies” (1939 and 1945) and left under Soviet influence. We are not eastern Europe, not even geographically.

Bohemia was part of the Holy Roman Empire since the 10th century, Bohemian King was the first of secular Imperial Electors.

Prague was the seat of several Holy Roman Emperors, being an administrative center of the Empire for a noticeable period of time (1355–1437, 1576–1611).

Bohemia adhered to Western Christianity.

Bohemia was culturally, economically and legally interconnected with the rest of the Holy Roman Empire (i. e. Teutons). There was virtually no influence of Russian principalities, Lithuania, etc. - and no architectural influence at all!

(taken from fandom, thank you for these arguments unknown user :slight_smile: )

PLEASE DEVS!!! Do not continue this bigoted stereotype, do not spread such image of us!!! We were forced to be under Soviet influence. Damn, even DNA studies shows that we have less than 30% of Slav DNA, we are and always were the crossroad in the middle of the Europe and culture that is closest to us are Germans. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE reconsider change of the architecture set to Teutons!!!

P.S: We really appreciate the way you included us in the game and accuracy of many things such as Karlstein as castle (see? German name, not Russian) and Zizka and names of our kings and Zizka’s tactic and… soooo much grateful.

Thank you!

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We have Ethiopians using western African architecture and Incas using Mesoamerican architecture so you are very very far away of the worst example around

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Although I do think that it should change, they might be better off just making unique architecture sets for all the civs. I think people would literally pay maybe 25% of the normal DLC price for a unique architecture set for all civs DLC, assuming they aren’t nice enough to put it in the base game. Microsoft is just trying to make money, they don’t really seem to get that if they make the game even better, like fixing bugs and adding civ specific unit and building skins they will probably be able to sell more. Even if they should change the Bohemian set, visually I personally think that the Eastern European architecture set is one of the coolest looking.

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That could be true but I don’t think Incas will complain and contrary to Bohemia - Ethiopia did not play major role in development of world during middle age.

Why does it matter so much? Well, we stayed behind the Iron curtain and it is really unpleasant to be considered as another eastern Slav nation. Actually, for 300 years we were under rule of Habsburgs, our language almost died and culture was and is more or less like German’s. It has been revived by some enthusiasts in second half of 19th century and big part of it is artificially made (they just made up words and rules).

My point is that since we played important role in development of western civilization for more than millennium and only 40 years under influence of Russia, it would be really nice if at least middle age themed game could portray us correctly.

I know, it is just game, but it would be nice if players around the world could have correct idea of what the Bohemia actually was (still is).

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Multiple topics on the same subject.

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You mean two topics created by same person and both from Jun 14 - long time before DLC release? True. I just hope that after the release when people actually can play as Bohemians more people will find this kind of silly.

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If they wanted to change they would have done already. DE gave byzantines the italian buildings at launch but did not give persians the tatar buildings who are the original makers of the blue dome buildings.

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Thats both rude and wrong.

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And I can tell you that alot of people of South America really care about it. And probably a lot of people in general conaidering we are talking about the Incas.

Sorry,but I dont think that you can argue that you have any priority over these two

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Necroing topics that have been dormant for 3 months+ is an official warning worthy offense and repeated attempts is a bannable offense / best to make new threads.

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I did not know this is popularity contest. Also, what you are doing is called whataboutism and it is on the same level as demagogy in discussions. Fact that something is wrong does not justify other wrong things.

Topic title is “Bohemians - we are not and never was eastern or orthodox”. Nothing about Ethiopians or Incas.

Ethiopians - let me rephrase it - Europe is usually considered as “cradle of modern civilization”. Holy Roman Empire and surrounding countries had major influence on how the world looks today. And Bohemia played important role in that empire for centuries, so it is kind of silly to put us in the same bag with civs that have orthodox religion. Btw… events portrayed in AOE2 and following centuries started atheism in our land. (recently one of the most atheist country in the world)

Point is that giving us orthodox church is like ripping out Bohemia from the history of Holy Roman Empire.

But… whatever, I give up, you came to this thread with negativistic approach and no matter what I try to say or explain nothing will change this approach of yours… internet discussions rarely lead to any reasonable consensus anyways.

Have a nice day

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Its not about popularity, it was mostly because you said this

And…

Tbh i get that argument but I think that its a bit silly on hindsight. Better to just look at in-period stuff (and even if we include modern stuff Ethiopia still wins, sorry).

If we include modern stuff as reasons to say they are important you run into problems, we need to add Dutch and other kingdoms that did little in the period.

And yes I know that its silly that Bohemians have Eastern European architecture and I supported other posts, but this time it came out a bit entitled.

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Byzantines on the Middle Eastern architecture with a mosque. That was utterly egregious.

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Yes really needs central European architecture.

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I don’t think these are good comparisons because as far as I know there is only one African/Meso architecture in the game so changing that would mean creating all new ones. Whereas OPs concern is with having the wrong architecture of existing architectures in the game.

It is very odd to name two of the civilization’s units/bonuses after John Huss and then make Bohemians Orthodox. John Huss was a martyr and reformer central to the early days of the protestant reformation. You could consider him the predecessor to Martin Luther.

I can certainly see how it would be a slap in the face to a nation that suffered under the horrors of communism for so long to then be grouped as a Slavic nation.

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Ethiopians still fit way better with Middle Eastern architecture than western african

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Don’t care. Eastern architecture set looks better (including the monastery).

Just let them have the eastern set, it’s much nicer to the eye, even if not historically accurate. Close enough. I’d rather have it easy on my eyes in the thousand hours I play multiplayer than the 3 hours I devote to a campaign.

So either give them an unique architecture set that’s cool or don’t touch them.

Thanks :slight_smile:

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I am sorry if it sounds entitled to you, that is surely something I did not want.

Ok, let me present it from another angle. Jan Hus was a catholic priest and reformer who criticized catholic church for exploiting religion, abusing of church’s power and greed. It cost him life (1415). It was when Hussites began to appear. They were Christians who believed Jan Hus was right and they sought for revenge, but they remained Christians, just wanted to change some things. They named it " Church of the Brethren"

So… the core of the events portrayed in AOE was basically religion. Catholic religion.

Yet we got Orthodox/Eastern architecture. Makes no sense, especially when you know that devs put enough effort into study of historic events. Not sure why they did it but it just seems they are considering us as eastern and there you go.

Btw, after Hussites were defeated, new age of violent Christianization started and people started to hate/fear Catholic church and that is when first atheists appeared. (about 1650).

I am non-believer, as most of population here so I don’t care so much about religion, but… hmm… how would you feel if someone would portray US and UK allies in WW2 game as communists and said it is “based on real events”.

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Tbh I honestly dont care about that aspect because theres already too many inaccuracies with religion already (half eastern European civs were christian before DotD, Byz have a christian church, Huns have central european architecture, etc.)

The main reason I see to change the architecture is simply because Bohemians are very close to Germans.

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1 hour now could mean much more than 100 years 1000 years ago
I’m very sorry that you don’t have an accurate representation of the Bohemians, you should stop playing this game until all the historical discrepancies are sorted out
Or you can create (or pay for) your own architectural set in a mod for the Bohemians
This game is a real time strategy game, not a medieval history classroom
Maybe you would have preferred that the Bohemians had never appeared in the game (I love them by the way)
If you ask all the factions of the game, you will find many historical inaccuracies
You are not the first, you will not be the last

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