Breaking down the Ottoman Blunder - Janissaries

So at this point PUP is over and we have all the info we can get on the new civs. Most tend to agree that the Ottomans are a functional civ overall - in a boring but practical kinda way. Likewise, most agree that the janissary in its current form is genuinely useless, being too weak to replace the strong generalist like the handcannoner and redundant as an anti cavalry specialist. The stats:

  • 95/105 hp

  • 16/20 (16/28) base damage

  • 16/20 bonus damage vs cavalry

  • 0/0 armor

  • 1.75 attack speed

  • 3.5 range

  • 1.12 move speed

  • Takes +50% more ranged damage - practical testing found that this does apply to mangonels.

  • 60 food, 100 gold cost

The problem right out the gate is that it combines the range and dps comparable to a mangudai with the speed of heavy infantry and durability of light infantry. Before getting into the meat of why it sucks at everything, lets just get over one bunk counter argument; ‘its not even MEANT to be an HC, totally new unit type, its a sPeCiAlIsT for cav only’ - no. Devs tried and failed to make a unique HC for Ottos - why would a unique HC be weaker than the baseline to fill a redundant role?

Going into actual breakdown; low range on ranged cav makes sense - if they weren’t vulnerable to standard ranged infantry then there’d be no counter since melee units get kited. It makes no sense at all on a unit that gets run down by heavy infantry. Low range + low speed = bad times.

Then there’s the damage and durability problem. Its heavy infantry units can and will run jans down with the new charge rework. In melee maa have more dps and durability, especially for the cost. Hell, spears can technically take good trades since ottos are spending 100 gold on each jan. There dps vs cav is good in theory, but squat in practice as it relies on the opponent running cav into its counters - a situation which also relies on the other player to not make anti siege. It cant engage or retreat on its own terms and doesn’t have the stats to make it through fights it gets forced into.

Finally, the elephant in the room - +50% ranged damage taken. Unlike the other drawbacks which combine with each other, this one is a back breaker on its own. Their is no unit that can function with this kind of anchor. Its vaguely bearable vs archers - only half of what spears take, sort of proportional the lower hp. That’s just how hard counters are, no biggie. Then the high base damage of crossbows gets boosted too - with all techs in age 4 xbows hit jans as hard as a heavy unit. Handcannons outright 2 shot them; 63 damage taken per shot before armor for 120 in 2 shots after armor.

Net sum, we have a unit too fragile to frontline and too short-ranged to backline compounded with being too slow to even outmaneuver the melee units on 2 legs and also to slow to mean anything vs its own specialty. All thats left is a siege repair gimmick that got nerfed to two patches ago. Therefore, this unit is not an improvement over any unit it tries to complete in its current form.

Edit:
TLDR:
Jans have the advantage of a good dps/cost, but the compensation weaknesses compound each other to the point it becomes unusable for practical purposes. It falls behind as a stand alone and part of a composite army as its low range, movement speed, and fragility prevent it from competing with available alternatives as a main/support unit. Discussing possible redesigns, relevant changes (patches), and exchanging info that might make it viable as is.

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52 posts were merged into an existing topic: Janissary Suggestion

A post was merged into an existing topic: Janissary Suggestion